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jimct
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| Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:01pm | IP Logged
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This 45 was first released around October of 1970, as MGM 14182. The flip, "Hello Melinda Goodbye" was the starred, "Plug" side on this promo 45. As our Canadian friends, David and Torcan, may attest, this side was a Top 10 hit in some Canadian markets (Edmonton), right around New Years' Day, 1971. This promo 45 also contained the full "LP Version" (as Pat currently describes it) of "Signs." This EXACT same 45 configuration was re-released, around April/May of 1971, this time on Lionel 3213. Again, the starred, and this time stated "A" side was "Hello Melinda Goodbye", with the stated "B" side being "Signs", again with a listed and actual time of (4:05). This full version of "Signs" was the only one I ever heard on CT Top 40 radio, peaking in late Aug. of '71. I fully anticipate that Lionel subsequently issued a new promo 45, containing shorter version(s) of "Signs", once it become obvious that their intended "B" side was becoming the U.S. hit. But I have looked for years, and have only ever seen/found the two I already own. I wasn't in radio yet; only starting high school. Can a radio vet from that era, like Gary Mack, or someone else, help? Does anyone own a shorter "Signs" promo 45? Did anyone hear/play a shorter version in 1971 on AM radio wherever you were at the time?
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 03 July 2006 at 4:16pm | IP Logged
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Jim,
Here is what I have on hand for the vinyl 45 "Signs":
1) commercial copy Lionel 3213 - label states (3:20) but actually runs (3:02) matrix number 70L1634. The label states "A side".
2) commercial copy Lionel 3213 - label states (4:05) but actually runs (3:25) matrix number 70L1634-2. The label does not state "A side".
3) commercial copy Lionel 3213 - label states (3:20) but actually runs (3:25) matrix number 70L1634-1. The label states "A side".
4) dj copy Lionel 3213 - label states (3:20) but actually runs (3:25) matrix number 70L1634. The label states "A side".
5) dj copy MGM K14182 - label states (4:05) but actually runs (3:25) matrix number 70L1634. The label has an * on the flip side which is "Hello Melinda Goodbye".
I have never come across a vinyl 45 that runs the full length of (4:05) hence the designation "LP version" for the cd appearances that do run (4:05).
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Gary Mack
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| Posted: 03 July 2006 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
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Very strange, and here is yet another variation (which is what was played by the Top 40 stations in Phoenix):
6) dj copy Lionel 3213 - label states (4:05) but actually runs (4:01) matrix number 70L1634-4. The label states "B side".
The 45 is very narrow stereo, but the guitar in the beginning is off to the right while everything else is in the center.
GM
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jimct
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| Posted: 03 July 2006 at 9:36pm | IP Logged
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Guys: I have learned something new today. Turns out BOTH my DJ copies of "Signs" skip repeatedly around the same point in the last :30-:40 seconds, prohibiting me from getting and noting accurate timings previously (and still). Until tonight, I was ALWAYS under the impression that the "long" intro was the tip-off to the (4:05) LP version, as a long-owned reprint 45 of "Signs" I have has an :03-ish intro before the vocal. I assumed ALL the (3:20) and (3:25) versions had that short intro. Thanks to Pat, I now know differently. My MGM promo deadwax (listed time 4:05) is K14182 70L1634-1, same as Pat's Lionel commercial 45. So, if my 45 would've played through, it must run (3:25). My Lionel promo deadwax has the EXACT same info, but scratches out the K14182 part, since that was MGM catalog info, also listing a time of (4:05). I'm sure that must also run (3:25). I could tell tonight, by how close to the end of the grooves both 45s got before skipping, that they wouldn't have reached the (4:05) mark. Obviously, an usually large amount of different 45 configurations have made their way around for this one. I apologize for my incorrect statements - I didn't note the skipping problems on the Post-It notes I attach to each 45 I own. But hey, thanks to our "Early-70's-DJ-Ace-In-The-Hole", Gary Mack, we now know that a (4:00+) promo DID in fact, exist! I KNEW the one I remember hearing on the radio in '71 went that long! And, now I finally know that the long intro can STILL mean edit, and does NOT automatically mean (4:05)! Thanks guys, and again, my apologies for my mix-up.
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 04 July 2006 at 4:55am | IP Logged
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The only unresolved issue at the moment seems to be was there a commercial 45 pressing that runs (4:01)? Can anyone help answer this question?
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jimct
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| Posted: 04 July 2006 at 7:53am | IP Logged
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Gary Mack wrote:
6) dj copy Lionel 3213 - label states (4:05) but actually runs (4:01) matrix number 70L1634-4. The label states "B side".
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Pat, I think the only (4:01) 45 version Gary has confirmed is on a promo 45, not a commercial 45. But a commerical 45 of it is certainly possible.
Edited by jimct on 04 July 2006 at 7:54am
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edtop40
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| Posted: 07 July 2006 at 7:37pm | IP Logged
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my commercial copy is the first one.......
1) commercial copy Lionel 3213 - label states (3:20) but actually runs (3:02) matrix number 70L1634. The label states "A side".
it has a real bad/abrupt edit at the 1:30 mark
Edited by edtop40 on 07 July 2006 at 7:39pm
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sriv94
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 9:07am | IP Logged
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edtop40 wrote:
it has a real bad/abrupt edit at the 1:30 mark
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OK, now I'm confused (again, not working with vinyl here, so I'm at a little disadvantage). I have three versions of this song on CD--a (3:02) version from the Rebound Class Reunion 1971 CD, the (3:27) version from the Rhino Have A Nice Decade box, and the (4:05) version from several sources (assuming that it's the LP version).
Ed mentions a bad/abrupt edit at (1:30) on his single. The (3:02) version I have runs faster than the other two versions, strips out the opening 23 seconds and fades early (a la the (3:27) version). But I don't hear any abrupt edit on that version. So is the (3:02) version on the Rebound CD not the correct short 45 version? (Could also be a skip or something.)
Edited by sriv94 on 08 July 2006 at 9:31am
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 28 March 2020 at 11:48am | IP Logged
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For some reason, I revisited this song in my music library
today. So, would you now consider the 4:01 LP version to
be the version everyone knows or the 3:25 or 3:02
versions? Granted, it doesn't get any airplay on the radio
anymore and not sure which version Sirius plays.
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Santi Paradoa
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My preference is the shorter stereo 3:02 version. It may be barely stereo, but I'm a big fan of "the shorter the better." The live cover by Tesla that was a hit two decades later is practically the same length as the original 3:02 edit with the same short intro.
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garye
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| Posted: 28 March 2020 at 7:45pm | IP Logged
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When I purchased the single in 1971 it was the 4:05
version and that was the version WCOL AM played.
However 2 weeks later a friend purchased a 3:05 single
and suddenly WCOL started playing both versions (short
during the day, long version at night) so long version
was commercially available as well as short version!
Go figure!
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 02 April 2020 at 7:27am | IP Logged
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I can add to Pat's 2006 response that I have the same info that he does plus these:
Commercial copy Lionel 3213 - label states (4:05) but actually runs (4:01) matrix number 70L1634-1. The label states "B side". This
was from the library of 1490 WCVA Culpeper VA which somebody sold to a retailer where I picked it up. The Program Director crossed off
the title of the A side, and marked the B side to play.
DJ Copy Lionel 3213 - Double "A" side, "Signs" in stereo on both sides. Same length on both. label states (3:20) but actually runs
(3:25) matrix number 70L1634-1. Which is odd because that's the same matrix of the original B side issue. The length matches one of
Pat's commercial copies. The printed label is incorrect, says 70-L-1638, which is the matrix for the B side. So that's another mistake.
Speaking of stereo, it's the same narrow stereo on all issues (and edits) with reverb shooting to the right channel on some
instruments, with some copies adding a lot more clipping than others. But I can't find a mono issue of this song anywhere on vinyl.
Does anyone have one? If there isn't one, what the Rhino mono issue may be is the left channel only, which is why some instruments are
"dry" verses the stereo issue. Unless there was a mono mix with the dry instruments that I've never found.
Edited by Bill Cahill on 02 April 2020 at 7:30am
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AndrewChouffi
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To Bill Cahill:
Yes, the Rhino issue was the left channel spread monaurally to the left & right channels - I don't believe that ever reached the public before the 'Have A Nice Day' issue. I'm pretty sure it was a conscious decision (as the mild stereo is somewhat weird & shifting) as opposed to a mastering error.
Andy
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Five Man Electrical Band-"Signs"
