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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 10:14pm | IP Logged
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Just recently Varese Sarabande released the original John Phillips album with the hit song "Mississippi." In addition to the original LP, the disc also includes the 45 version of the hit.
BEWARE!!!
While the LP tracks sound good, the single version of "Mississippi" is not a clean copy from the master tape. It is a less-than-desirable vinyl cleanup. There's plenty of groove distortion (especially toward the end of the song), and it just doesn't sound good.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 11:21pm | IP Logged
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Aaron:
Unfortunately, the master tapes containing the 45 version mixes of several Mamas & Papas Top 40 hits were discarded many years ago and therefore all CDs that have these 45 mixes come from vinyl dubs. I'm not certain if the master tape containing the 45 version of John Phillips' "Mississippi" was lost forever in the shuffle as well. I'm sure Tom Diehl or one of the other resident board experts on oldies master tapes can furnish more details on this.
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MMathews
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| Posted: 25 September 2006 at 11:17am | IP Logged
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Hi All,
All 45 masters for anything on the Dunhill label are long lost. Legend has it this happened when MCA took control of the label and I've heard various stories about it.
Bottom line is all they have in the vaults are stereo LP masters. Any 45 versions that appeared on CD have been dubs of original Dunhill 45's.
Also too bad that most of those 45 pressings were very noisy and grungy.
-MM
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 25 September 2006 at 11:35am | IP Logged
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Does anyone know if Mama Cass's top 100 hit "Move In a Little Closer, Baby" appears on any CD from master tape? This is one of the few cases where I prefer the mono single mix (it's so much punchier) than the LP mix (which is not only less punchy but also very tinny). If I recall, every CD I've heard of this song has been mastered from vinyl.
Also, was this song never on any Mama Cass LPs except Best Of types?
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 27 September 2006 at 12:40am | IP Logged
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MMathews wrote:
Hi All,
All 45 masters for anything on the Dunhill label are long lost. Legend has it this happened when MCA took control of the label and I've heard various stories about it.
Bottom line is all they have in the vaults are stereo LP masters. Any 45 versions that appeared on CD have been dubs of original Dunhill 45's.
Also too bad that most of those 45 pressings were very noisy and grungy.
-MM
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From what I've been told by someone who asked Andy McKaie about this directly, many, but not all, 45 masters were tossed out. Also, if the songs appeared on a mono lp, Universal should still have the mono lp tapes as those shouldn't have been tossed out. The only tapes that did get tossed were the mono 45 masters IF (and only if) there was a version (whether it matched the single or not) that appeared on an lp of any kind, then the LP masters were kept. If the mono 45 was special to 45 and never on an lp in mono or stereo, Universal kept the mono 45 tape.
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anthology123
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| Posted: 27 September 2006 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
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That would explain all the Grass Roots Dunhill 45 mixes also missing.
So I take it the version of Mississippi on the Creeque Alley box set is the LP
version?
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 29 September 2006 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
MMathews wrote:
Hi All,
All 45 masters for anything on the Dunhill label are long lost. Legend has it this happened when MCA took control of the label and I've heard various stories about it.
Bottom line is all they have in the vaults are stereo LP masters. Any 45 versions that appeared on CD have been dubs of original Dunhill 45's.
Also too bad that most of those 45 pressings were very noisy and grungy.
-MM
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From what I've been told by someone who asked Andy McKaie about this directly, many, but not all, 45 masters were tossed out. Also, if the songs appeared on a mono lp, Universal should still have the mono lp tapes as those shouldn't have been tossed out. The only tapes that did get tossed were the mono 45 masters IF (and only if) there was a version (whether it matched the single or not) that appeared on an lp of any kind, then the LP masters were kept. If the mono 45 was special to 45 and never on an lp in mono or stereo, Universal kept the mono 45 tape. |
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Very interesting... So if I'm understanding correctly, does this mean that the Dunhill 45 mixes actually all do still exist on tape somewhere???
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 30 September 2006 at 11:28am | IP Logged
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If the mono LP masters weren't thrown out, then yes. If they were, then probably not...although the UK should've been sent copies of the same mono tapes.....
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jimct
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| Posted: 18 April 2007 at 12:43am | IP Logged
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My commercial 45 for this, which is mono, has a listed time of (2:59), but an actual time of (3:09).
Edited by jimct on 18 April 2007 at 1:02am
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jrjr
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 6:50pm | IP Logged
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the abc/dunhill 45 also has a "warlok" insignia on the label... was this supposed to be a subsidiary or vanity label-type thing for john phillips because i cannot find it listed as such in any of my reference books... also, despite the vinyl distortion, it's nice to hear this song without the horrible "drum edit" on the lp version... what were they smoking in the editing room on that day???
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john halloran
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| Posted: 03 August 2012 at 3:20pm | IP Logged
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Looks like the 45 edit of Mississippi has now shown up on a re-release of the Mamas and Papas last LP "People Like Us". This was released out of the UK by Now Sounds/Cherry Red label. It looks like its been out since the end of June-has anyone picked this up??? The promo on the website says everything was "sourced from the master tapes".
I dont know about NowSounds/Cherry Red. I picked up he rerelease of the first Association LP, and while the LP tracks were fine, the 45 mixes sounded iffy. More troubling was my copy was stamped with a Rhino logo, meaning they used stateside masters (or vinyl 45s) for the cd mastering. Maybe one (Association) has nothing to do with the other (John Phillips).
I know everyone is looking for Dunhill masters to start showing up from overseas, particularly the UK (Ace). I also know everyone was pretty much disapointed with the 45 version that ended up on the John Phillips solo release. It would be nice to see this 45 show up in pristine form-its a classic in my books.
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KentT
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| Posted: 03 August 2012 at 4:40pm | IP Logged
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The master tape purge happened when ABC Records bought Dot Records. Single tapes often got purged as did Mono LP tapes if there was a Stereo release. Masters stored elsewhere escaped the purge. Happened supposedly in the middle 1970's. MCA bought ABC Records in 1979.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 14 January 2014 at 11:22am | IP Logged
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can the 45 version be extracted from the lp version or is
it a mix issue?
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Yah Shure
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edtop40 wrote:
| can the 45 version be extracted from the lp version or is it a mix issue? |
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It can't be replicated from the LP version, Ed. There are noticeable vocal take differences during the choruses, plus completely different lyrics from 2:29 to 2:38. But the most obvious tip-off as the song plays along is the placement of the stand-alone word "just" at about 1:49, just ahead of the instrumental break. That word comes in one-and-a-half seconds later on the LP version than it does on the 45.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 14 January 2014 at 8:47pm | IP Logged
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To YahShure:
Everything you said in your post was true, with the exception of the stand-alone word. What John Phillips is saying is "Joseph". He is calling out his recording session bass player Joe Osborn to play his bass solo.
Of course as a charter member of L.A.'s "Wrecking Crew" Mr. Osborn has played on thousands of songs & hundreds of Top-40 hits.
Andy
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 14 January 2014 at 9:39pm | IP Logged
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"Joseph"?? I guess that does make more sense, at least on the 45. But on the LP version, Joe is plunking the first note even as John says his name. Why didn't the refs call a delay of Joseph penalty?
Thanks for the correction, Andy. I have a feeling that my brain cells won't quickly embrace the change after having misheard it since 1970.
Side note: During the years I lived in Oklahoma in the early '80s, on the drive to and from Minnesota, I'd often tune in Kansas City's "61 Country" WDAF-AM, which, thanks to the excellent midwest ground conductivity, had a phenomenal daytime reach for only 5000 watts. Without fail, on every one of those trips, I'd hear them play the 45 version of "Mississippi." Alhough the single did chart country, its number 58 peak wasn't indicative of the record's long-lasting appeal in Kansas City, more than a dozen years later. All the more remarkable, considering it's the Missouri that flows through KC, not the other "M" river.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 16 January 2014 at 4:28pm | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
All the more remarkable, considering
it's the Missouri that flows through KC, not the other "M"
river.
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Not so fast. Remember, there are 2 Kansas Cities...one in
Kansas, the other in Missouri and the Mississippi River
flows between the two.
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bitman
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| Posted: 16 January 2014 at 6:00pm | IP Logged
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Not so fast. Remember, there are 2 Kansas Cities...one in
Kansas, the other in Missouri and the Mississippi River
flows between the two.[/QUOTE]
Not so fast. There is one Kansas City that straddles the eastern side of Kansas and western side of Missouri. The Mississippi flows along the eastern side of Missouri at St. Louis.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 16 January 2014 at 7:18pm | IP Logged
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hykker wrote:
| Not so fast. Remember, there are 2 Kansas Cities...one in Kansas, the other in Missouri and the Mississippi River flows between the two. |
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bitman wrote:
| Not so fast. There is one Kansas City that straddles the eastern side of Kansas and western side of Missouri. The Mississippi flows along the eastern side of Missouri at St. Louis. |
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Not so fast. There are two Kansas Cities, one in Kansas, the other in Missouri. The Missouri River flows between them as it comes in from the northwest, where it forms the boundary between the two states. But just beyond where the Kansas River flows into the Missouri (in KCKS) the boundary hops over the bank and heads due south, with State Line Road separating the KC twins.
Or, in vintage AM top-40 lingo:
Kansas City = Missouri River = WHB
St. Louis = Mississippi River = KXOK
Both Storz stations, incidentally. Which, during the years I made those drives, was headquartered along which of those two rivers?
...
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A: The Missouri at Omaha, Nebraska. Speaking of which: look up Carter Lake, Iowa on the map. If you make the short drive from downtown Omaha to the airport (which is also located in Omaha) you have to drive through Iowa to get there, without crossing a river. Rivers'll do that when they have their way. Makes the dueling KCs look sensible by comparison. ;)
Edited by Yah Shure on 16 January 2014 at 7:30pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 November 2015 at 8:23pm | IP Logged
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For those who like to compare, here's a snippet of the 45 version from the 2006 Wolfking reissue:
Mississippi from 2006 reissue CD
And here's a snippet from the upcoming Real Gone CD:
Mississippi from 2016 M&P Complete Singles
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: John Phillips - Mississippi
