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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 16 December 2006 at 9:40pm | IP Logged
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I noticed that the two CDs containing this song (the "Rain Man" soundtrack and the "Then '80s" CD) have different mixes, which I don't think anyone's pointed out before. It's especially apparent in the intro. If you cut off the 1st 1.5 seconds of the "Rain Man" intro, that's where the "Then '80s" intro starts -- except the "boingy" sound that begins the "Then '80s" intro has no click-sounding percussion underneath, while "Rain Man" has the boingy sound WITH a click-sounding percussion. Also, there seems to be some different percussion on the "Then" CD -- while the "Rain Man" version has much more stereo separation of instruments (particularly drums). The "Then" seems almost mono (but it's not.) Also, around 2:17 the versions totally diverge from each other. On "Rain Man", it just repeats the tag line over and over while the "Then" version has another chorus ("Talking 'bout Hey now, hey now..."
I know the "Then" CD series claims all are "original 45 versions" but in some cases it's not true (e.g. Get Wet's "Just So Lonely"). So is the "Then" version truly the 45 version and was it this mono-ish? Also, this was a hit in the UK in '82, but a hit here in '89. So maybe -- is there an '82 mix and an '89 mix?
If anyone can shoot an mp3 my way of the 45, I can help to figure out what version is what.
This was a #14 hit --I'm surprised nobody on this board caught it (or at least mentioned it on the board). :)
Seems like we're always unearthing something new. I hope this turns out to be a single mix.
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Paul C
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| Posted: 16 December 2006 at 10:59pm | IP Logged
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The version on "Then '80s" is NOT the 45 version.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 17 December 2006 at 12:42am | IP Logged
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Paul, is the 45 version the same as the album version?
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edtop40
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| Posted: 17 December 2006 at 8:15am | IP Logged
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yes....the 45 and cassingle version are both the same as the lp version from the "rain man" soundtrack, and they all run 2:52.....btw...the 45's face states the run time as 2:49....
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 17 December 2006 at 10:03am | IP Logged
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So does anyone know what version is on "Then 5"? Is it a 12" remix? an unreleased alternate mix?
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 17 December 2006 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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Interesting... Usually, the Varese Sarabande label is careful about including the correct hit versions on their CDs, especially when the packaging indeed says "original 45 versions". So EdisonLite may be on to something here... Could the mix of "Iko Iko" appearing on the Then 80's - Totally Oldies 5 CD (Varese Saraband 302066444) be the original non-hit mix that was first released in 1982? Also, notice that the mix on Then 80's runs :04 longer than on the Rain Man soundtrack.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 17 December 2006 at 2:36pm | IP Logged
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Jim recently sent me a copy of the "7-inch Mix" for review, which is contained on the 12" vinyl single. I'm guessing this mix was not actually included on the 7" single, because it's totally different with a hip-hop beat behind it. The rhythm track uses samples from Rob Base's hit "It Takes Two."
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 17 December 2006 at 4:31pm | IP Logged
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<I'm guessing this mix was not actually included on the 7" single, because it's totally different with a hip-hop beat behind it. >
It sounds like the mix on "Then 5" is not the mix Aaron speaks of above, as it doesn't really have a hip hop beat. It's not that far from the original mix. It's got more percussion but definitely not something radically different that I'd label hip hop (ala the '90s mix of "December 1963.") So it sounds like there's at least 4 mixes floating around out there of the Belle Stars recording:
the LP/45 mix
the mystery mix on "Then 5"
The 12" vinyl mix
and the other mix on the 12" vinyl disc called "7-inch mix".
Unless someone has all 4 of these, I suppose it's possible there's overlap here.
And who knows if there was a 1982 7" mix that would bring the total to 5.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 17 December 2006 at 4:33pm | IP Logged
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And one more thought ... was there a Belle Stars LP with this song (either in '89 or '82)? Maybe the "Rain Man" LP has one mix (that became the hit) but the Belle Stars LP has another mix??
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aaronk
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| Posted: 17 December 2006 at 8:23pm | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
| I suppose it's possible there's overlap here. |
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I think you're probably accurate on all four of those being unique mixes. The 7-inch Mix on the 12" single sounds like a short version of the 12" Mix, which is radically different.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 18 December 2006 at 7:25am | IP Logged
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"Iko Iko" originally appeared on The Belle Stars LP, Stiff/Warner Bros. 1-23866, 1983, with a printed time of 3:01. Not sure if it was released as a US single at the time, but it hit UK#35 in June 1982.
The version on the '83 LP is a completely different recording than the one on the Rain Man soundtrack, which was recorded from scratch for Capitol. The '83 version is faster than the '89 version - about 107 BPM vs. 104 BPM.
The version with the "It Takes Two" beat was on the Capitol 12" in 1989, but was certainly not the hit. At the time, it didn't even work well on the dance floor.
Hope this helps.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 18 December 2006 at 12:18pm | IP Logged
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With the help of Jim, I compared the actual WB 1989 45 with the version on the "Rain Man" soundtrack CD and they are identical (other than the fact that the left and right channels have been reversed.)
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jimct
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| Posted: 18 December 2006 at 12:44pm | IP Logged
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The channel reversal is my bad, Gordon - I can't seem to keep my L/R turntable jacks plugged into the correct slots! Please keep that in mind for future comparisons I may send you - in this case, feel free to shoot the messenger!
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 05 January 2007 at 8:33pm | IP Logged
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I just heard back from someone I know (Bill Pitzonka) at Varese Sarabande, the label that issued the mystery mix of "Iko Iko" on "Then 5", and he writes:
<The tape we were given was for the U.S. Single Version, whatever that means ...>
Is it possible there were 2 different US singles of this (that look identical on the 45 label but have different matrix numbers printed on the wax)?
Edited by EdisonLite on 05 January 2007 at 8:34pm
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 05 January 2007 at 8:58pm | IP Logged
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I just told Bill about the comments on this board (i.e. the single mix is the same as the album mix) and he responded:
<I think this was the Capitol Rain Man single mix, if I remember correctly ... which would have made it the charted version ... >
Can anyone look into this?
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jimct
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| Posted: 05 January 2007 at 9:26pm | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
| With the help of Jim, I compared the actual WB 1989 45 with the version on the "Rain Man" soundtrack CD and they are identical (other than the fact that the left and right channels have been reversed.) |
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Even though the Belle Stars' original early 80s recordings were on WB, Gordon, ALL "Iko Iko" 1989 commercial and promo 45s were issued on Capitol, including the mp3 dub I sent you earlier. Capitol was also the label that issued the original movie soundtrack. So, you've already heard the exact source that Bill P. said he thought his mastered CD version was taken from.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 05 January 2007 at 10:31pm | IP Logged
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Sounds like this may well be a case where the box Capitol sent to Varese was either mis-labeled or the wrong master tape was stored inside, and Varese never checked the tape against the 45. At any rate, this message thread prompted me to go out and pick up a copy of the Rain Man CD soundtrack and thus I now have the correct hit mix!
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 23 November 2015 at 8:32pm | IP Logged
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Mark asked me about "Iko Iko", so I thought I'd post my findings here.
The 45 version from 1989 is the hit version that I assume all of us are looking for. It was the same version that was included on the Rain Man soundtrack, and both were on Capitol. There was no full-length Belle Stars album to accompany the Capitol 45; this was a soundtrack-only song.
The 45 version runs 104.2 BPM throughout on the Rain Man soundtrack, with no visible edits, and no tempo drifts.
The version on Varese's Totally Oldies Vol. 5 Then '80s (2003) is closer to the 45 than I initially thought, but is still different. The boingy intro is different (Mark figured out where this came from; see below.) Unfortunately, the 1989 version can't be recreated from this version because of the intro. The Varese version matches up with the 1989 version beginning at the first cowbell sound (2.9 seconds in on the 1989 version, 1.4 seconds in on the Varese version). They match up until 2:09, where the Varese version includes a very obvious-sounding edit to loop a different portion of the song. The Varese version also has another edit at 2:25. So, the endings are different as well.
The Varese version runs 104.5 BPM until 0:22, and 104.2 BPM after 0:22, with the edits at 2:09 and 2:25. It's about 3 dB louder than the Rain Man soundtrack, with a significantly brighter EQ and a little added compression/limiting.
The Belle Stars originally released the song in 1982 on Stiff in the UK (45+LP) and on Warner Bros. in the US (just LP). I have the US LP version, but not the UK versions - I don't know if the UK 45 is different from the UK LP, or if either differs from the US. My WB copy of the US LP runs about 3.0% faster than the 1989 version. To my ears, it sounds like the same backing track as the 1989 version, but with a different lead vocal track. I sent a copy to Mark to confirm.
Mark discovered that the boingy intro on the Varese disc matches the boingy intro on the 1982 version. After you slow the US WB version down to match the 1989 version, the US WB version also has edits at 2:09 and 2:26, in the same places as the Varese disc. The Varese disc fades about 15 seconds before the US WB version.
So it looks like the Varese disc has the same song structure/backing track as the US WB version but fades earlier, has the same tempo as the 1989 version (about 3.0% slower than the WB), and somehow includes the same lead vocal as the 1989 version.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 24 November 2015 at 8:01am
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 23 November 2015 at 11:07pm | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
| Is it possible there were 2 different US singles of this (that look identical on the 45 label but have different matrix numbers printed on the wax)? |
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Hmmm, well, just to add to this discussion, while looking up "Iko Iko" on Discogs, I noticed there were, in fact, TWO different promo 45s issued for this single here in the U.S. in 1989, anyway (don't know about commercial). Pages, complete w/ photos:
THE BELLE STARS - "Iko Iko" (first U.S. promo 45)
THE BELLE STARS - "Iko Iko" (second U.S. promo 45)
The first one above is on Capitol P-B-44343, which matches the commercial single. The second had its own unique promo no., on Capitol 7PRO-79543. Both have white labels and a printed time of "2:49". I don't know if the versions appearing on them differ, though (don't own either myself). Calling jimct!!! :-)
Edited by 80smusicfreak on 23 November 2015 at 11:19pm
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jimct
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| Posted: 24 November 2015 at 4:51am | IP Logged
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Gregg, my station was sent/I currently own copies of both promo 45s you
just provided Discogs scans for. I just pulled them for you. Your
first/second notations are wrong, however, as it was the 7PRO-79543
promo 45 issued first. (Deadwax for both sides are identical: "7PRO-
79543 G-1", followed by a Q-shaped, stamped imprint (likely indicative
of a specific pressing plant). then "R-22433-G1" and "triangle 23998").
The P-B-44343, 2nd-issued U.S promo 45 also has the exact same
deadwax info on both sides of it. And, with one key exception, they are
100% identical to the 7PRO-79543 promo 45's deadwax details. Except
this one has "scratched off" the "7PRO-79543" part, and added "B-1-
44343" just to its left.
Bottom line: the musical contents of both of my Capitol promo 45s are
100% identical, despite the two different promo 45 inventory numbers
existing. So the promo 45 dub I passed along years ago for analysis,
earlier in this thread, does still accurately represent the contents of both
"iko Iko" Capitol promo 45s..
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Topic: "Iko Iko" Belle Stars
