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jimct
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| Posted: 01 May 2007 at 1:24pm | IP Logged
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My commercial 45, which is mono, has a listed time of (3:16), but an actual time of (3:19).
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Indy500
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What are the issues with this being "remixed 45 version"?
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 22 September 2012 at 3:09pm | IP Logged
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Also, has the correct hit mix of Lighthouse's "One Fine Morning", whether the 45 or LP version, ever appeared on an import CD?
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MMathews
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Well, the mix on the Varese disc "Bartley - Collector's
essentials - 70's" sounds to me like the original mix, but
edited to match the mono 45.
I can't hear why it's labeled as remixed - anyone know?
MM
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 23 September 2012 at 9:35am | IP Logged
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Sounds like the stereo side of the DJ single to me. (Stock copies were mono, which I always felt was odd for a label named "Stereo Dimension")
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 23 September 2012 at 10:35am | IP Logged
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Bill Cahill wrote:
| Sounds like the stereo side of the DJ single to me. (Stock copies were mono, which I always felt was odd for a label named "Stereo Dimension") |
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Were there two different Evolution DJ 45s? My DJ 45 is mono, with "Little Kind Words" on the B-side. None of the DJ 45s I played at various stations were stereo.
Agreed that the rainbow "a stereo dimension recording" banner on mono stock and DJ Evolution 45 labels was confusing, at best. By the time the stylus had re-carved the soft groove canyons of my stock Monarch styrene pressing after a few spins, however, it did give sort of a stereo dimensional effect to the distortion. :)
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Hykker
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| Posted: 23 September 2012 at 6:00pm | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
Were there two different Evolution DJ 45s? My DJ 45 is mono, with "Little Kind Words" on the B-side. None of the DJ 45s I played at various stations were stereo.
Agreed that the rainbow "a stereo dimension recording" banner on mono stock and DJ Evolution 45 labels was confusing, at best. |
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My promo is the same as yours (sans stickers).
Promos of their follow-up "Take It Slow" were mono/stereo, not sure about the commercial single.
Edited by Hykker on 23 September 2012 at 6:01pm
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 23 September 2012 at 7:30pm | IP Logged
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Hykker wrote:
| Promos of their follow-up "Take It Slow" were mono/stereo, not sure about the commercial single. |
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That would be mono.
Unlike the east coast labels, the west coast Monarch-pressed stock 45 labels for both "One Fine Morning" and "Take It Slow (Out In The Country)" sported a rather large "Sd" logo near the bottom center. Monarch's typesetter apparently didn't realize the logo's size would obliterate much of the band's name when printed in the ususal big, bold Monarch font on copies of "One Fine Morning." The oversight was corrected on the follow-up, but much of "the Monarch look" was lost in the process, due to the much smaller and less-distinctive replacement font.
Edited by Yah Shure on 23 September 2012 at 8:14pm
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jimct
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| Posted: 23 September 2012 at 8:34pm | IP Logged
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Re: One Fine Morning - An old friend of mine, who I've since lost track of,
did extensive analysis of this song for me, way back in the day. I initially
provided him both my Canadian "Best Of" CD and my U.S. 45, and asked
him (pre-Downey Board) to create the 45 version for me. He tried, and
said he couldn't, as the instrumentation between the two versions didn't
exactly match up. He then asked me if I owned the original 1971 U.S. LP,
on Evolution. I did, I then forwarded it to him. He determined that
Evolution chose NOT to simply use the original Canadian LP version of the
song for their U.S. version of the LP. Evolution remixed the instrumental
track. Now I don't exactly recall if it was bass, shakers, or extra
drums/guitars that was added. But I do recall that when he then tried to
re-create the U.S. 45 version from my 1971 Evolution LP, he said it
matched up perfectly. I realize we'll now need to "confirm/re-trace" my
old friend's research here. If anyone happens to own/can analyze both the
Import CD and the Evolution LP (I believe the U.S. LP version has still never
appeared on a CD), I'm sure the specifics can quickly be pinpointed. If not,
I still have the original LP, and I can shoot it out to Aaron, if necessary.
Edited by jimct on 23 September 2012 at 8:37pm
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 24 September 2012 at 10:39am | IP Logged
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Using my promo 45 of One Fine Morning as a reference , I hear an extra tambourine added on the Dick Bartley cd from 1:59 to 2:23 that I do not hear on the dj 45.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 24 September 2012 at 12:35pm | IP Logged
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Okay, I compared all three 45s I have (one DJ and two stocks) with the 1:59-2:23 segment on the Dick Bartley CD, and there's a tambourine on all four during that stretch. I didn't hear any difference between any of my 45s when compared under headphones with the 45s in one channel and the Bartley track summed to mono in the other. Pat, by "extra tambourine," do you mean a second tambourine or just one? None of the four tracks I compared are missing a tambourine during that segment.
All three of my 45s were sourced from the same cutting, even though they weren't all pressed at the same plant. One stock copy is on vinyl, and is identical in terms of label fonts and layout to the mono vinyl DJ 45 scan I'd linked to above, except that it doesn't have the star and "PROMOTION COPY NOT FOR SALE" designation.
The identical deadwax markings are in the same places on all three 45s:
the number 1048 is crossed out with two lines........ 45193........SON.........S-1982
The only variation is that the Monarch styrene stock copy includes the delta number 85934 between the SON and S-1982.
Pat, is your DJ 45 mono-only?
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 24 September 2012 at 3:01pm | IP Logged
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Let me rephrase what I stated above. Yes there is a tambourine on my 45 but it is mixed much lower than the version that appears on the Dick Bartley cd. My matrix number is the same as yours Yah Sure.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 25 September 2012 at 11:09am | IP Logged
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Thanks for the clarification, Pat.
In re-comparing the two at length, it did become apparent that the Evolution 45 is a dedicated mono mix. This becomes evident when the brass first kicks in during the intro (from :19 to :34). The horns during this segment are more up-front on the mono 45 than they are on the stereo Bartley CD track when summed to mono.
The 45 also runs at a slightly faster speed (~.66 second) than the CD track.
Edited by Yah Shure on 25 September 2012 at 11:11am
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 25 September 2012 at 1:43pm | IP Logged
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I don't own a stereo DJ copy of this song, I was pretty sure there was one and thought I heard it on FM radio at the time. I suppose a station might have made their own edit, and that's what I heard, but since there were other mono/stereo Lighthouse DJ copies I assumed this one was also available. Can anyone confirm the existance of a stereo DJ copy of One Fine Morning?
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Steve Carras
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Plus I've listened to both and yet another different element case is present--i.e., a part one the single only (the final half-verse) and the album (the instrumental parts). :)
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Steve Carras
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Update-just listened, there's some rearranging of verses-the three before the chorus ["fly the east/fly the west.."] on the LP, versus that chorus between the second & third verse...talk about a real restructuring job. Compare Chicago's Beginnings, Rufus's Tell me Something Good, & promos of Pacific Gas & Electric's "Are you Ready" & Wings' "Jet".
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MMathews
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| Posted: 24 December 2014 at 1:57am | IP Logged
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Good thing this song is a personal favorite, because I
just finished an exhaustive comparison of the all the
various versions, including a dub of a mint, un-played
45. So, now you get an exhausting post about it!
First, the LP Version. The original LP version sadly has
never appeared on CD. The "LP version" that has appeared
on CD is currently listed in the database as "(LP version
but with alternate bass line)" .. but I think a more
accurate description should be "(Remixed with a re-
recorded bass and drum track)".
The newer bass and drums are clearly recorded with 80's
or 90's technology, and have a very modern feel. I
thought this remix was cool when I first heard it on
Rhino's HAND, but since I look at it the same as a
Carpenters remix or a Madonna "Q-sound" re-tread.. sorry,
it's not the hit that I remember. I dubbed my vinyl LP
and that will have to do forever.
By the way, this remix first appeared on the Canadian
Best-of CD, so what Jim refers to above as the Canadian
mix is actually this remix. Jim, I'm pretty sure the
original 1971 Canadian mix and the '71 U.S. were indeed
the same.
A re-issue of the parent album is currently available as
a download, but it too substitutes the remix. I guess
this is how the band or the producers want us to hear the
song, forever.
Now, Jim also reported that his friend was able to re-
create the mono 45 version using the original '71 LP. I
agree, since I also have done the same thing. I folded
the original LP version to mono, then re-created the
edit. I got a perfect match when sync-ing it to the 45.
So, I have to disagree that the 45 is a dedicated mono
mix. I actually sync'd them so I could pinpoint the mix
differences, but only to find there weren't any.
Now, we have the Dick Bartley Collector's Essentials of
the 70's. That has a 45 edit in stereo. Ironically,
this is the only CD that Pat lists as a remix - but it is
the only CD in the DB that has the original 1971 mix as
it was released.
----OH, but i should mention - I had to RE-EQ the Bartley
CD master and lower the BASS a lot. They mastered it with
much more bass than the 45 or LP has, so when you fold it
to mono as -is, some elements like the horns sound more
distant. Once I re-EQ'd with less bass and raised the
upper mid-range to match the 45, then the mixes sound the
same.
For Pat: I'm not sure why you hear a difference in the
tambourine on your DJ 45, but I can verify the tambourine
matches the commercial 45 exactly. I can send you my dub
of the 45 of course.
Also, this stereo 45 edit existed before CD's... so this
was not created for this CD. I had this stereo edit on a
K-tel LP from 1975. Here's a link to that album in the K-
tel museum:
http://www.ktel.com/classics_music.php?id=5834
It MAY have been intended to be the stereo side of the DJ
45, although apparently wasn't actually used on the DJ
45. I don't know.
So, is this stereo edit the exact 45 version? No, not
quite. It was edited separately from or after the mono 45
edit was made, because they missed ONE edit point. It's
only off by 1.5 seconds.
As Steve points out, there's a bit of re-arranging when
editing the LP for the 45, they placed a later chorus
between verse 1 and verse 2. On the stereo re-creation,
they cut to this later chorus at 1:22, on the word "Fly".
But, on the mono 45 they cut in the chorus at 1:20.5,
right on the word "yeah". So in the stereo, at 1:20.5 we
hear a different "yeah" .. even though it is real close. Go figga. Also, as mentioned above, the CD master also
runs a little slower than the 45, so it needs to be
pitched up.
Now, some good news - you can "fix" the stereo edit so
that it is identical to the mono edit. The "yeah" that is
supposed to be at 1:20 also occurred later in the song,
at about 2:31. So, all I had to do was take the segment
from 2:31 - 2:32.5, and cut it in at 1:20.5 - 1:22.
The only other finishing touch was to tighten up the edit
at the end, on the finishing note. The mono edit was a
split second sooner than the stereo one.
Finally, I wasn't sure how this info would change the
description in the DB for the Bartley CD. Then I realized
based on my research, it should read "edit of LP version
in an unsuccessful attempt to create the 45 version"
Whew. Now I am going to listen to...something else. :-)
MM
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Hykker
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| Posted: 24 December 2014 at 8:36am | IP Logged
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MMathews wrote:
The newer bass and drums are clearly recorded with 80's
or 90's technology, and have a very modern feel. I
thought this remix was cool when I first heard it on
Rhino's HAND, but since I look at it the same as a
Carpenters remix or a Madonna "Q-sound" re-tread.. sorry,
it's not the hit that I remember.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on that. I
posted something to the effect that what was on the HAND CD
was not the original mix and was soundly flamed for it.
Don't remember where...it was a long time ago, maybe even
on a usenet group (always known for their civility :-/).
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Lighthouse-"One Fine Morning"
