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jimct
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| Posted: 23 May 2007 at 7:48pm | IP Logged
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Pat, since this song also hit the Top 10 in 1973, on Parrot 348, as well as its #1 peak on Garpax back in 1962, I'd just like to offer up some different "2nd hit 45 release" particulars. My 1973 commercial 45, which is mono, has a listed time of (3:00), but an actual time of (3:03).
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 23 May 2007 at 10:00pm | IP Logged
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How does it play/fade against the original Garpax 45? I had a stereo reissue 45 on London once that played at a slower speed and faded later than i remember the Garpax 45 playing and fading at, and the London reissue 45 timed out to 3:13.
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 23 May 2007 at 10:13pm | IP Logged
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Tom, the Garpax 45 states a time of (2:57) but actually runs (3:02). The :01 difference between the Garpax and Parrot releases could easily be the due to the problem of starting a stop watch at the correct point since the sound effects on the introduction fade in.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 19 October 2009 at 9:24pm | IP Logged
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Since Halloween is creeping up, I thought this would be an appropriate time to visit the "Monster Mash" thread. I'm just comparing the mono 45 version to the stereo CD version I have (which is from a TM Century GoldDisc). The stereo CD version has added reverb that I'm not hearing on the 45. Right the from the start, the bubbles are dry on the 45, whereas there is reverb on the stereo version. I also hear more reverb on the vocals of the stereo version. Not to mention, the stereo version has a longer fade out by several seconds.
Since I don't know the source of my stereo CD version (TM could've dubbed it from any one of the official CDs in the database), I'll have to leave this to another board expert.
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Hykker
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jimct wrote:
| Pat, since this song also hit the Top 10 in 1973, on Parrot 348, as well as its #1 peak on Garpax back in 1962, I'd just like to offer up some different "2nd hit 45 release" particulars. My 1973 commercial 45, which is mono, has a listed time of (3:00), but an actual time of (3:03). |
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This song was also re-issued on Parrot in 1970 which is when I bought my copy to replace a pretty beat-up Garpax single. I'll have to check, but I think it's the same catalog # as the 1973 re-re-issue.
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 26 October 2009 at 3:51pm | IP Logged
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There are two stereo mixes out there, one wider than the other. The source is probably just a two track. The more narrow mix may just be the wider version narrowed, I don't know. The narrow mix is on the Polygram 1 Hit Wonders CD. The wider one is usually on the Rhino CDs, except that one of the Elvira CDs has a re sing.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 October 2009 at 5:56pm | IP Logged
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How about the extra reverb? It seems like we should account for that in the database, unless my TM CD is the only one with reverb on the bubbles and added vocal reverb.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 October 2009 at 6:46pm | IP Logged
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I forgot I had this on Fun Rock, where it also contains the extra reverb.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 26 October 2009 at 7:03pm | IP Logged
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Fold the "extra reverb" copies to mono and see if it's still there..... it may end up disappearing, like it does when you fold the stereo "It's All In The Game" by Tommy Edwards down to mono. If that's the case, i don't necessarily think it should be considered a different version....
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 October 2009 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
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It's definitely still there. Like I said, the most obvious is on the bubbles sound effect. The bubbles are dry on the 45. The reverb is loud and clear on a fold-down of the stereo.
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jimct
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| Posted: 18 June 2013 at 7:06pm | IP Logged
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I have just acquired two 1962 original Garpax 44167 commercial 45
copies of this song. They are different.
The first has a white label, simply states "GARPAX" in bold print at the top,
is styrene, says "Distributed by London Records, Inc." at the bottom, has a
listed time of (2:57), and an actual time of (3:02). Deadwax is "GP-
44167A-, then four lines crossing out "1J", with another "1J", just to its
right. This copy appears to be exactly like Pat's copy. My copy was likely
used as a promo copy, as a "X", written in blue magic marker, appears on
the "Monster Mash" side. On this label, the title is in far bolder print than
the artist name is, and the stock # is shown on the label as simply
"44167".
The second copy also has a white label, but there are 4 black lines going
through it, at, let's say, 2, 4, 8 and 10 o'clock. (These lines were not
"drawn in" - the flip side has this exact same label design.) The "GARPAX"
also appears in bold, but is in much smaller type than it is on the other 45
copy. There is no reference to London Records at all on this copy, but the
small type that appears on it is totally consistent with 45s that London
had pressed up by Columbia in 1962. This 45 copy is vinyl. On this label,
the stock # is shown as "45-44167". Deadwax is "GP 44167 A". It also has
a listed time of (2:57), but this copy runs (3:06). Tom had mentioned
upthread, that he's heard a London reissue 45 that both ran slower, and
went longer - (3:13). Well, this 2nd 45 copy doesn't run (3:13), but my
ears noticed it right away - it does clearly run slower than my first-
reviewed copy. The title and artist are in equally bold print on this copy.
As if the waters weren't already murky enough for this song, given its db
releases in 1962 & 1973, and its non-Top 40 release in 1970. Now this!
Edited by jimct on 18 June 2013 at 9:49pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 23 June 2013 at 11:38pm | IP Logged
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I was just able to give a good listen to Jim's (3:06) 45, and my initial thought is that it's a bootleg. First off, there are "thumping" noises on the lead in groove and trail out groove that sound like someone is jiggling or bumping the turntable. Secondly, the sound is pretty awful--bootleg quality--despite being in pretty great condition. Lastly, and this is just a gut feeling, it doesn't look old enough to be from 1962, but it could possibly have been pressed up in the '70s. Maybe it was done at the time the Parrot 45 was charting, as the song was making a resurgence in 1973. In any case, I think it's a pretty safe bet that this is a dub of another 45.
Edited by aaronk on 23 June 2013 at 11:39pm
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TomDiehl1
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I'm looking at the "lines" label version on ebay and it really looks to me like that label is a photocopy... perhaps someone drew the lines on the original label before it got photocopied that way, but the lines dont extend all the way out like a logo would if it was done that way from scratch when the labels were first being done... it cuts off the way lines do on bootlegs ive seen of lots of doo wop 45s....
By the way I see some copies of the 45 on ebay crediting Bobby (Boris) Picket and the Crypt-Kickers while others credit Bobby "Boris" Pickett and the Crypt-Kickers... I was told once upon a time that one variation was found only on promo 45s, but I've now officially seen both artist credits available on both stock and promo releases of Garpax 44167.
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jimct
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| Posted: 24 June 2013 at 12:45am | IP Logged
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Tom, I had the 45 right in front of me, and it absolutely did *not* look like
a photocopy. And the lines extended all the way out. I totally concur with
Aaron's bootleg findings here, but I just cannot support your "eBay label
browse assessments." Tom, I had a much better look. (However, I did find
the "common look" that you said my vinyl MM 45 had to some Doo-Wop
bootleg 45s to be *extremely* valuable info - thanks!) :)
You also make another great point, Tom, about the (Boris) vs "Boris"
variation, as a possible legit/boot 45 tipoff. Excellent observation!
Tom, earlier in this thread, you did cite a slower, (3:13) London reprint 45.
In part, that report of yours led me to have some confidence that my
"slower 45 copy" did have some precedent/legitimacy, albeit in a later
pressing. When folks make such items available for analysis, as I have
done here, we can then, as a team, pool our 45 resources, work together,
and usually get to the bottom of it pretty quickly.
To that end, Tom, can you please shoot out a copy of your slower,
Monster Mash reprint 45 to Aaron, for further analysis? I'm very curious to
hear that 45's contents. Many thanks!
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 24 June 2013 at 12:13pm | IP Logged
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Jim i will try to get to my storage locker tomorrow or Thursday to pull the Pickett 45 (assuming I still have it filed properly). In the meantime if anyone else wants to get the stereo version on vinyl, this is what my reissue looks like: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-BOBBY-BORIS-PICKETT-MONSTER-MAS H-1-RE-ISSUE-45-RPM-RECORD-/171060576663?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&h ash=item27d4014197#ht_197wt_1328
As for why I think the "lines" label looks like a bootleg, these two auctions make me think the labels are photocopies....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOBBY-BORIS-PICKETT-LOT-MONSTER-MASH -MONSTER-MASH-PARTY-GARPAX-C37-/380544289151?pt=Music_on_Vin yl&hash=item589a35097f#ht_175wt_1328
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bobby-Boris-Pickett-Monster-Mash-/36 0378393868?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item53e839e50c#ht_417wt_10 91
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jimct
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| Posted: 24 June 2013 at 12:16pm | IP Logged
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Tom, I accept your new photographic examples. Jeez, you're a young guy.
How do you know SO many of the subtle intricacies of bootleg 45s?
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 June 2013 at 2:40pm | IP Logged
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Tom is a smart one, that's for sure.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 24 June 2013 at 9:18pm | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
Tom, I accept your new photographic examples. Jeez, you're a young guy.
How do you know SO many of the subtle intricacies of bootleg 45s? |
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Honestly, it's because I know a lot of collectors and they've helped me in determining real from fake copies.... plus i've got a large number of doo wop "repros" in my collection, they look nice but certainly don't look 100% real... there's just a "later" look/feel to them and their vinyl quality...
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 27 June 2013 at 8:36pm | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
Tom, earlier in this thread, you did cite a slower, (3:13) London reprint 45.
In part, that report of yours led me to have some confidence that my
"slower 45 copy" did have some precedent/legitimacy, albeit in a later
pressing. When folks make such items available for analysis, as I have
done here, we can then, as a team, pool our 45 resources, work together,
and usually get to the bottom of it pretty quickly.
To that end, Tom, can you please shoot out a copy of your slower,
Monster Mash reprint 45 to Aaron, for further analysis? I'm very curious to
hear that 45's contents. Many thanks! |
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After checking what I had filed in the storage locker, I found that I did not have the Deram Timepieces reissue anymore but had replaced it with an older London reissue (why, I don't know...) and it has a much narrower stereo mix than the Deram Timepieces reissue, with the audio leaning towards the right channel. It has a listed time of (3:00) but has an actual time of (3:10) (however boosting the volume as the song fades out shows significant noise on my copy so its possible it runs slightly longer than that).... I'd be glad to shoot a dub of this copy of the 45 out to anyone if they're interested.
You can hear how the Deram reissue plays on this ebay auction here... I am purchasing it so I can get an accurate timing of this pressing once again on my turntable, as its possible the 3:13 time may be off since the sound sample in this listing runs 3:10 like the London pressing I just dubbed...which is still longer than 3:06 anyway...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bobby-Pickett-7-45-HEAR-Monster-Mash -DERAM-TIMEPIECES-Monster-Mash-Party-/290869463710?pt=Music_ on_Vinyl&hash=item43b92bca9e#ht_549wt_1328
Edited by TomDiehl1 on 27 June 2013 at 8:48pm
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 02 July 2013 at 9:23pm | IP Logged
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Well, I got the Deram reissue in the mail today and I am now wondering if the player I had originally played a copy of the same pressing 45 was perhaps running a tad slow when I gave it a 3:13 timing.... this pressing does time out to be 3:10, not 3:13, and it is in WIDE stereo. If you would still like a dub I'll be glad to shoot one off to you tomorrow.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Bobby "Boris" Pickett-"Monster Mash"
