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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 16 July 2007 at 7:57pm | IP Logged
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Here's an interesting situation that I found while researching the song "I'm a Flirt" by R. Kelly. Trying to determine what the 45 version should be, I went to Itunes (since this charting version is available only as a digital download) and discovered that there are 6 different versions listed as the single version. Unlike a cd single where one generally assumes track 1 is the "A" side, I cannot do that with multiple digital downloadable versions. Any discussion as to what the 45 version of this song should be?
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 16 July 2007 at 8:59pm | IP Logged
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Pat:
My version I have from JonesTM Prime Cuts is R. Kelly feat. T.I. and T-Pain "I'm A Flirt" (Remix)[Clean]
My guess would be, in regards to iTunes, that the Remix Clean would be the 45 version. Not sure if the squeaky clean is a further edit that iTunes did.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 16 July 2007 at 11:32pm | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
| Not sure if the squeaky clean is a further edit that iTunes did. |
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I work with iTunes on a project through work, and I can say for sure that anything on iTunes comes directly from the various record labels. They are not allowed to make their own versions or even pull songs from the actual CDs. That R. Kelly edit would have to be an official version released by Jive.
Pat, what is your current policy on songs that are not available as singles except via download? Maybe it's time to start listing alternate versions by their actual names (i.e. Radio Edit, Remix, etc.) rather than "45 version." After all, the days of having only two, maybe three, versions of a song are long gone, and it's kind of hard to put a "45 version" classification on songs with multiple mixes when a true single was never avaialble.
I'd say if the song has a physical single (CD or vinyl), the "45 version" classification would still apply (or "DJ edit" since just about all songs have promo singles available). Otherwise, my vote is to list the name of the mix. If the hardcore collectors on this board can't even determine what the "45 version" of a song is, then maybe there really isn't one.
(As a side note, whenever I'm compiling pre-1990 songs, I do use the terms "45 version" and "LP version." Otherwise, I list the name of the actual mix. For purposes of keeping things simple in the database, I can understand why Pat uses "45 version" even for songs that never had a vinyl 45; however, I prefer to list "single version" or the actual name of the mix for those songs.)
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 17 July 2007 at 5:43am | IP Logged
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"I'm A Flirt" is kind of a special case. Billboard showed two versions charting at the same position every week. It's my understanding that Bow Wow (Featuring T.I. & T-Pain) did the first version. Apparently, co-writer R. Kelly thought he could do a better version, so he erased Bow Wow's vocals and put his own on the song, calling it a "remix".
We have the R. Kelly commercial 12" vinyl single which lists "Clean Radio Version" as the lead cut; run time states (5:09), but actually runs (5:16). The CD promo single matches the 12" with the "Clean Radio Version" as the lead cut; states (5:09), runs (5:16). I'm not aware of any commercial vinyl release for the Bow Wow version.
Edited by Paul Haney on 17 July 2007 at 9:07am
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 17 July 2007 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
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I didn't know there was a commercial 12" single of the R. Kelly version of "I'm a Flirt" as the Billboard chart justs lists a "D". How can that happen Paul?
Are T.I. & T-Pain listed as contributors on the 12" and dj cd single by R. Kelly?
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 18 July 2007 at 5:03am | IP Logged
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Pat Downey wrote:
I didn't know there was a commercial 12" single of the R. Kelly version of "I'm a Flirt" as the Billboard chart justs lists a "D". How can that happen Paul?
Are T.I. & T-Pain listed as contributors on the 12" and dj cd single by R. Kelly? |
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Pat, the commercial 12" single didn't come out until the song's 6th week on the chart...starting on April 7, 2007, the chart showed both a "T" and a "D".
Yes, T.I. and T-Pain are featured on both the R. Kelly and Bow Wow versions.
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torcan
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| Posted: 19 July 2007 at 5:15am | IP Logged
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Paul Haney wrote:
Pat, the commercial 12" single didn't come out until the song's 6th week on the chart...starting on April 7, 2007, the chart showed both a "T" and a "D".
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I've always wondered who it was that was responsible for reporting what formats were available to Billboard. During the '90s there were numerous times where songs were available on vinyl, but a (V) was never listed on the chart. I also have a couple of commercial CD singles that never had that designation either.
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eric_a
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| Posted: 19 July 2007 at 7:45am | IP Logged
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torcan wrote:
| I've always wondered who it was that was responsible for reporting what formats were available to Billboard. During the '90s there were numerous times where songs were available on vinyl, but a (V) was never listed on the chart. I also have a couple of commercial CD singles that never had that designation either. |
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I remember (and own) many of those phantom 7" vinyl singles from the '90s. I think that many of them were pressed for jukeboxes, so retail was just a byproduct.
Meanwhile, I know vinyl jukeboxes are quickly going extinct, but are current 7" singles still common? My mall's store stopped carrying them about 10 years ago, and I've only rarely seen them since.
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torcan
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| Posted: 19 July 2007 at 8:09am | IP Logged
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eric_a wrote:
Meanwhile, I know vinyl jukeboxes are quickly going extinct, but are current 7" singles still common? My mall's store stopped carrying them about 10 years ago, and I've only rarely seen them since. |
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While the Billboard charts certainly seem more accurate these days in terms of what formats songs are available in, current vinyl 45s have all but disappeared. I think the last top 40 single to have a vinyl 45 was Kelly Clarkson's "Because of You" over a year ago.
It was fun while it lasted, but it looks like everything's going to downloads instead of physical singles.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 19 July 2007 at 11:14am | IP Logged
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torcan wrote:
Paul Haney wrote:
Pat, the commercial 12" single didn't come out until the song's 6th week on the chart...starting on April 7, 2007, the chart showed both a "T" and a "D".
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I've always wondered who it was that was responsible for reporting what formats were available to Billboard. During the '90s there were numerous times where songs were available on vinyl, but a (V) was never listed on the chart. I also have a couple of commercial CD singles that never had that designation either. |
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I talk to the guy at Billboard who handles the configurations, almost on a weekly basis. He does a great job on keeping up on all of the formats and getting them correct on the charts. Before he got there around 1994 there would often times be mistakes, but since he's been there it's been much, much better.
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 19 July 2007 at 12:46pm | IP Logged
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The only 45s that appear to be coming out these days (not counting the value added promos that independant retail gets) are by country acts on independant labels (Tracy Lawrence, Emerson Drive etc).
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 12 August 2007 at 11:40am | IP Logged
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The R. Kelly cd "Double Up" contains "I'm A Flirt" and was released in a parental advisory version and a clean version, I do not hear any lyrical differences between the two versions of "I'm A Flirt" on these two cd's. Anyone care to point out the lyrical changes between the two cd versions?
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: I’m A Flirt by R. Kelly
