Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: "Leaving Me"

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Topic: "Leaving Me" - The Independents

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 23 October 2007 at 10:01am \| IP Logged

According to the database, CD entries for The Independent's "Leaving Me" range widely from 3:07 to 3:21, yet there are currently no associated comments to help explain the run time discrepencies. Does anyone have the vinyl 45 or the parent LP who can pass along the song's run time info? Once again, I'm wondering if there's a length, edit, or speed difference between the 45 and LP.

jimct
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Posted: 23 October 2007 at 5:19pm \| IP Logged

My commercial 45, which is stereo, has both a listed and actual time of (3:20).

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 9:03pm \| IP Logged

An FYI... "Leaving Me" is a real mess on the Soul Hits of the '70s, Vol. 10 various artists CD (Rhino 70790). According to my notes, it's mastered from vinyl, is missing the opening drum hits, runs much faster than the 45 speed, and fades out early.

By the way, I notice there's one database CD where this song is in mono and runs 3:15. Since commercial 45 copies were issued in stereo, is the CD in question reflective of a mono DJ length perhaps?

jimct
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 9:18pm \| IP Logged

Not unless there were two different promo 45s issued for this song back in
early 1973, Todd. My promo 45 includes "Leaving Me", in stereo, on one side
of it, with the same song that's also included on the stock 45's flip ("I Love
You, Yes I Do") on the other side of my promo.

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 9:54pm \| IP Logged

Jim, your promo 45 info is consistent with every copy I've seen online to date, all of which have been marked "stereo". It's possible the lone mono appearance on CD is nothing more than a fold down of the stereo mix. Why the audio engineer would master it this way though, I have no idea.

jimct
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Posted: 30 July 2013 at 11:56pm \| IP Logged

Todd, common sense tells me that a CD engineer wouldn't have folded
down a stereo master to mono, for CD inclusion. I find it always helps me
to put myself in the label's shoes. At the time. It is late 1972. Quite
possibly *the* first year when 50.1% of 45s were issued in stereo, not
mono. Some labels were quicker to switch to stereo stock/promo 45s
than others. This issue was on every label's "table" at the time. And, as we
both already know, via our "yearly mono/stereo 45s threads", in 1972/73,
different labels came to different decisions on what to make available. To
both the public and to radio.

I find it quite plausible that whoever was preparing "Leaving Me" for 45
release initially prepared a mono mix for it. Many labels had already been
issuing promo 45s as mono/stereo. But very few in stereo only. Isn't it
quite likely that this particular engineer created an original, mono
"Leaving Me" master, just assuming that one would be required? But it
never was. So here it was, sitting in some tape vault, unused, all these
years, until someone pulled it and dubbed it off, for a CD licensing
request. My best guess? It was that unused mono mix, making its
worldwide CD debut! Due to simple carelessness.

More background. Label owner Florence Greenberg, (or someday else at
Scepter/Wand) had made the decision to "freshen up/modernize" their
45s for 1973. 1972 was a major transitional time at her label. Her #1
artist, Dionne Warwick, left to sign with WB. Her #2 artist, B.J. Thomas,
had his last Top 40 for Scepter, in very early '72, and he would soon leave
to sign with Paramount (and later ABC/MCA, Columbia, etc.) By late '72,
the label's future was by far as tenuous as it had been since before the
Shirelles started having hits in 1961.

Just throwing it out there for you, good buddy!

aaronk
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Posted: 31 July 2013 at 7:44am \| IP Logged

I think Jim is quite possibly correct with his theory. The only other thing
I'll add as a possibility is that the CD contains a vinyl dub, and the
engineer purposely folded it to mono. This happened with the Carole
Bayer Sager CD, as well as a few copies of "Forever" by Tierra. I may
have mentioned this before, but vinyl dubs sound better when folded to
mono, since some of the noise cancels out.

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sriv94
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Posted: 31 July 2013 at 12:28pm \| IP Logged

Anyone know if the versions available on iTunes are legit? They run (3:21) or thereabouts and they come from a company called Gusto Records (but they say "original Wand recordings" on the CD JPG image). (I only have the (3:10) version from the Rhino disc.)

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 31 July 2013 at 7:41pm \| IP Logged

jimct wrote:

Todd, common sense tells me that a CD engineer wouldn't have folded down a stereo master to mono, for CD inclusion... I find it quite plausible that whoever was preparing "Leaving Me" for 45 release initially prepared a mono mix for it. Many labels had already been issuing promo 45s as mono/stereo. But very few in stereo only. Isn't it quite likely that this particular engineer created an original, mono "Leaving Me" master, just assuming that one would be required? But it never was. So here it was, sitting in some tape vault, unused, all these years, until someone pulled it and dubbed it off, for a CD licensing request. My best guess? It was that unused mono mix, making its worldwide CD debut! Due to simple carelessness.

I suppose one way to test your theory, Jim, would be to do a fold down of the commonly available stereo mix on CD and then compare it to the mono CD appearance to see whether they match up or not. I don't have the lone mono CD in question, however, and at this juncture it's really not even on my "Wish List" given that all promo and commercial copies of this song appear to have been issued in stereo.

jimct
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Posted: 01 August 2013 at 2:49am \| IP Logged

Todd, your last sentence has got to be the truest thing you've ever said on
this board!!!! You ask just so many deeply detailed questions, about so many
different songs. You know I always try and help you, as best I can. But in
truth, I usually can't keep up. What vitamins do you take? :) I've already told
you over the phone, that my nickname for you is "The Inquisitor!" All I know
is that if you worked for the FBI or the CIA, 1) they'd need more staff, and 2)
they'd solve a heck of a lot more crimes!

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 01 August 2013 at 10:36pm \| IP Logged

LOL! Well, as you know, Jim, I make copious amounts of notes over time while working on my numerous (and seemingly endless) music-related projects. I usually try to only post a few items at a time so as to not overwhelm the forum, though occasionally I'll unload a string of inquiries at once in an eager bid to "clear out the queue" and help uncover and solve as many Top 40 mysteries as possible with the assistance of my fellow music collectors.

As for being "The Inquisitor", interestingly this trait really doesn't seem to extend very far beyond the Top 40 music universe for me. For instance, it's funny how I can zero in on a :03 run time discrepancy with laser-like precision, yet it may take me weeks before noticing a new piece of decor that my wife brings home!

edtop40
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Posted: 05 August 2013 at 5:28pm \| IP Logged

todd....just sent you a wave file of the song from the
'whole lotta soul cd 72-73' for your review....

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TomDiehl1
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Posted: 05 August 2013 at 5:54pm \| IP Logged

sriv94 wrote:

Gusto/Starday (GML) owns much of the Scepter/Wand catalog.

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sriv94
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Posted: 05 August 2013 at 8:02pm \| IP Logged

TomDiehl1 wrote:

Gusto/Starday (GML) owns much of the Scepter/Wand catalog.

Thanks, Tom. Good to know for the future.

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edtop40
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Posted: 08 August 2013 at 8:17pm \| IP Logged

todd, i appreciate your detailed review and effort in
getting to the bottom of all these 45 differences.....KEEP
UP THE GREAT WORK!!

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davidclark
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Posted: 15 March 2015 at 10:09pm \| IP Logged

ditto what ed wrote about todd. It's what makes this board so
rewarding, is that it takes a combined effort from us to get the
database as accurate as possible pointing out as many differences in
the released versions of these hits.

I came across this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR7QMhVaTiI

Notice the missing opening drumbeats. Not knowing how many
drumbeats were on the parent LP, perhaps this is where Rhino
mastered their version for "Soul Hits". I also notice the opening piano
is mixed louder in this version than my other version.

Edited by davidclark on 15 March 2015 at 10:14pm

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