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Oddbjorn
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 2:31pm | IP Logged
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My 45 of John Fred & His Playboy Band - "Judy In Disguise (With Glasses)", Paula 282, states a run time of 2:47 but actually runs 2:52 and matches most of the run times listed in the db
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 20 March 2022 at 11:32am | IP Logged
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Anyone ever hear a fantastic sounding stereo version with great separation for this song? I know I haven't. Maybe on an import somewhere?
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 20 March 2022 at 5:55pm | IP Logged
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PopArchivist wrote:
Anyone ever hear a fantastic sounding
stereo version with great separation for this song? I know
I haven't. Maybe on an import somewhere? |
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A wider, better sounding mix does exist, but I can't
remember what CD (import?) I got it from. I'll let you
listen to my mp3 of it.
Andy
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 21 March 2022 at 1:04am | IP Logged
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I used to have an mp3 that was supposedly at
least partially an alternate take and was
wide stereo, but I lost it several computer
crashes ago and never found it again since.
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LunarLaugh
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| Posted: 21 March 2022 at 1:49pm | IP Logged
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It sounds pretty good to me on ACE's "Chartbusters USA Vol.
2".
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Hykker
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| Posted: 22 March 2022 at 5:19am | IP Logged
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PopArchivist wrote:
Anyone ever hear a fantastic sounding stereo version with great separation for this song? I know I haven't. Maybe on an import
somewhere? |
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Somewhere I once read an analysis of the stereo on this song, and it stated that the hit version doesn't exist completely in stereo. The hit version
was supposedly pieced together from several takes, some of which only existed in mono.
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VWestlife
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| Posted: 27 March 2022 at 10:08am | IP Logged
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I don't think the "very poor stereo separation" description in the database is warranted. While the main part of the song is indeed what sounds like mono with some stereo reverb added, the instrumental break, most of the background vocals, and sitar ending are in full stereo with good separation.
But it definitely sounds like it was pieced together from multiple recordings, especially at 2:10 when the background vocals abruptly switch from stereo to mono.
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MMathews
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| Posted: 27 March 2022 at 7:42pm | IP Logged
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Just FYI - I checked this some years ago, the mono 45
matches exactly a fold-down of the original (more common)
stereo mix. Everything matches exactly, including the
reverb.
I just re-checked to confirm it.
So fold down that mix and you have the mono 45 mix.
The alternate mix does not match the 45 but is an
interesting alternate way to hear the multi-tracks.
MM
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 28 March 2022 at 6:25pm | IP Logged
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VWestlife wrote:
I don't think the "very poor stereo separation" description in the database is warranted.
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I disagree. During the 60's much better separation exists in general and this song should be targeted by Eric Records it would be nice to have a stereo mix rather than a mono-poor stereo hyrbid of a mix.
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VWestlife
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| Posted: 28 March 2022 at 9:54pm | IP Logged
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I know I'm not the one calling the shots, but IMO, notations like "very poor stereo separation" should describe faults with the source tape used or mastering of the CD, not a subjective judgement of the way the original recording was mixed. Especially not when about half the song actually is in full stereo, just like King Harvest's "Dancing in the Moonlight" which switches back and forth between narrow and full stereo.
And as noted above, a truly full stereo version of "Judy in Disguise" would be impossible to create without going back to the original session recordings and completely re-editing and remixing it from the several different takes that were pieced together to form the hit version of the song -- if those recordings still exist in usable condition somewhere.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 3:53am | IP Logged
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VWestlife wrote:
But it definitely sounds
like it was pieced together from multiple
recordings, especially at 2:10 when the
background vocals abruptly switch from
stereo to mono.
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I find it odd how some releases have the
second set of "come with me tonight" vocals
in mono and others have it in stereo, while
other releases still, have the ending in
mono while others are in stereo. I think it
was Mark who had put together a "full"
stereo version once. It sounded fine to me
and I'd love to see that one get released.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
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This is interesting.
I found two different permutations of stereo/mono on CD, and I think that they may correspond to the 45 (being a fold-down of one permutation) and LP (being the other permutation).
Here's a YouTube dub of the 45 (it's in mono) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuEO1dt_FAI
The mastering that corresponds to the 45 (the only difference is that it's not entirely in mono) appeared first on Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 19 1968 Shakin' All Over (1989). The first "come to me tonight" vocals (1:07-1:17) are in wide stereo, with the high-pitched vocal being only in the left channel and the low-pitched vocal only in the right. There's a "yeah yeah" in the right channel at 1:18. The string portion (1:48-2:06) is in very nice stereo. The second "come to/with me tonight" vocals (2:07-2:17) are in wide stereo throughout. The ending (2:46 onward) is in mono. The same analog transfer is used on:- Warner Special Products' 2-CD Sessions Presents 60's Frat Rock (1990)
- Warner Special Products' 2-CD 40 Party Classics (1996)
If I ever need to return to this again, I pitched the Classic Rock disc down by 0.13% to match the YouTube dub of the 45. They stay perfectly in synch with this one speed adjustment.
The mastering on Good Music's 2-CD Rare Gold (1990) sorta matches the Time-Life disc, but sounds like it uses a higher-generation source tape. Sounds pretty cruddy here; avoid.
Here's a YouTube dub what I believe to be the LP (you don't see the record on the turntable, but it's clearly from a record) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up7dcAilcvY
This version appears on Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1968 (1988 with a digitally identical clone on a RE-1 reissue from 1993). Part of the opening drumbeat is cut off in the right channel, for both the vinyl and CD versions. On the CD, there's a little static in the left channel from 0:04 to 0:06; there's no way to tell if that's on the record. The first "come to me tonight" vocals (1:07-1:17) are in wide stereo, with the low-pitched vocal being only in the left channel and the high-pitched vocal only in the right (left/right channels swapped from Classic Rock). The string portion (1:49-2:06) is in very nice stereo. The second "come to/with me tonight" vocals (2:08-2:18) have their first line in wide stereo and are mono thereafter. The ending (2:48 onward) is in stereo. There's a small amount of tape drag on the Rhino disc, but pitching it up by 2.5% will get you close to the YouTube clip. It doesn't stay in synch with the 45 YouTube clip, which makes me think it was edited from different source material pieces.
The first appearance of the (probable) LP version on CD was on Warner Special Products' 2-CD Fun Rock (1986). Here, it sounds spectacularly awful, using a lifeless-sounding source tape, and running significantly faster than the Rhino disc. Plus, it's in narrowed stereo, so that the low/high pitched "come to me tonight" vocals are mixed closer to the center. This CD is one of the first Warner Special Products compilations, well before they started using decent-sounding copies of the source material from the individual labels. Avoid.
The mastering on Rhino's Dick Bartley On The Radio Vol. 1 (1997) uses a different analog transfer than the Billboard disc, but is pretty close sonically. The left/right channels are swapped (so that it now matches Classic Rock), there's no static from 0:04 to 0:06, and the volume is louder so there's a small amount of clipping on some of the loud portions.
Summing up:
(1) There seem to be only two permutations of mono/stereo/etc on CD.
(2) One permutation (which is likely a stereo version of the 45) is on Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 19 1968 Shakin' All Over (1989). There's a "yeah yeah" in the right channel at 1:18. This version stays in synch with the 45, with just one speed correction that affects the whole track.
(3) The other permutation (which matches a YouTube clip that is likely from the vinyl LP) is on Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1968 (both 1988 and 1993 versions). There's no "yeah yeah" at 1:18.
Other opinions are welcome!
Edited by crapfromthepast on 31 March 2022 at 12:32pm
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LunarLaugh
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 1:05pm | IP Logged
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I would mention that the source on the Dick Bartley On The
Radio disc seems to have been mastered with some type of
de-noising. Not exactly the same as noise reduction, but
you can kind of hear it pumping in and out on the off-beat.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 15 April 2022 at 9:30am | IP Logged
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crapfromthepast wrote:
The other permutation (which matches a YouTube clip that is likely from the vinyl LP)
is on Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1968 (both 1988 and 1993 versions). There's no "yeah
yeah" at 1:18.
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Actually I do hear a faint "yeah" at (1:18) on the Billboard and Bartley discs.
Is this enough to warrant a 45/LP designation in the database?
Edited by sriv94 on 15 April 2022 at 9:34am
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: John Fred "Judy In Disguise"
