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Brian W.
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| Posted: 25 January 2008 at 2:00pm | IP Logged
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I did a search for previous discussions of this and didn't see anything.
All database entries say "neither the 45 nor LP version." What is the difference on the 45? iTunes has an OOP Flying Machine CD called "Flight Recorder," track 13 of which is mono and described (by other sources) as "US Single Version." Is this the true 45 version?
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sriv94
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| Posted: 25 January 2008 at 2:32pm | IP Logged
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Is the time listed (2:49)?
I have the Varese "25 Greatest Bubblegum Classics" CD with a (2:49) mono version that Pat does not have the "neither" designation for. TTBOMK, the only difference is the longer versions have a little keyboard intro before the beginning, whereas the mono version does not.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 25 January 2008 at 2:35pm | IP Logged
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The time is listed as 2:56 on iTunes for "Flight Recorder." The listed time on the 45 is 2:55.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 25 January 2008 at 3:49pm | IP Logged
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I grabbed the track in question off of Napster. I'd betcha it's the 45 version and mastered from vinyl! You can
hear surface noise as the track fades out...
Edited by eriejwg on 25 January 2008 at 3:52pm
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jimct
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| Posted: 25 January 2008 at 5:15pm | IP Logged
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Brian W. wrote:
All database entries say "neither the 45 nor LP version." What is the difference on the 45?
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Two things always jumped out at me, Brian. 1) Assuming you have Rhino's "Super Hits Of The 70's, Vol. 1" handy, the :05 1/2 second keyboard intro was chopped off for the 45, and, 2) Near the end of the song, between (2:33) and (2:43) on the above-mentioned CD, a brief "ba-ba-ba-ba-baaa-ba" vocal interlude was removed for the single, and was replaced on the 45 by a similarly brief "horn, bugle" solo, right before the final chorus.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 25 January 2008 at 5:22pm | IP Logged
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Based on Jim's description above, then the mono version available on Napster and iTunes is the 45 version.
Like I said, mastered from vinyl!
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 25 January 2008 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Jim and eriejwg. Hmm, so I wonder if the mono version on "25 All-Time Greatest Bubblegum Hits" is the 45 version.
(As a side note, this is one of the earliest songs I remember hearing on the radio.)
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 25 January 2008 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
Brian W. wrote:
All database entries say "neither the 45 nor LP version." What is the difference on the 45?
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Two things always jumped out at me, Brian. 1) Assuming you have Rhino's "Super Hits Of The 70's, Vol. 1" handy, the :05 1/2 second keyboard intro was chopped off for the 45, and, 2) Near the end of the song, between (2:33) and (2:43) on the above-mentioned CD, a brief "ba-ba-ba-ba-baaa-ba" vocal interlude was removed for the single, and was replaced on the 45 by a similarly brief "horn, bugle" solo, right before the final chorus. |
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Correct in that this is not the U.S. single version, however it IS the UK single version. Why they changed it for the US is anyone's guess, but it seems a LOT of songs got slightly different versions when issued in the US verses the UK (a few Dave Clark Five songs come to mind as does I'll Be There by Gerry & The Pacemakers).
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 25 January 2008 at 9:55pm | IP Logged
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
jimct wrote:
Brian W. wrote:
All database entries say "neither the 45 nor LP version." What is the difference on the 45?
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Two things always jumped out at me, Brian. 1) Assuming you have Rhino's "Super Hits Of The 70's, Vol. 1" handy, the :05 1/2 second keyboard intro was chopped off for the 45, and, 2) Near the end of the song, between (2:33) and (2:43) on the above-mentioned CD, a brief "ba-ba-ba-ba-baaa-ba" vocal interlude was removed for the single, and was replaced on the 45 by a similarly brief "horn, bugle" solo, right before the final chorus. |
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Correct in that this is not the U.S. single version, however it IS the UK single version. Why they changed it for the US is anyone's guess, but it seems a LOT of songs got slightly different versions when issued in the US verses the UK (a few Dave Clark Five songs come to mind as does I'll Be There by Gerry & The Pacemakers). |
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If this is the case, then the database should probably be updated to have all the "neither the 45 nor LP version" comments changed to "U.K. 45 version", just like in the case of Gerry & The Pacemaker's "I'll Be There".
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satchdr
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| Posted: 16 February 2008 at 12:21am | IP Logged
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I've reviewed the "25 All-Time Bubblegum Hits" and "Super Hits Of The 70's Volume 1" versions. To continue the discussion: if the mono "25 All-Time Greatest Bubblegum Hits" version is the US 45 version and the stereo "Super Hits of the 70's Volume 1" version is the UK 45 version, then is there a different "LP version" and, if so, (1) what are the differences between that and either of the 45 versions and (2) other than the vinyl LP "The Flying Machine" (Janus 3007), where can it be found on import CD?
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Yah Shure
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I dug out both the Congress 45 and the track from Rhino's History Of British Rock, Vol. 9 CD and compared them. Both are mono and have the horn break near the end.
The 45 run time is 2:54.6, while the CD run time (with the intro edited to match the 45) is 2:52.3. However, the 45 is noticeably slower than the CD. In addition, the 45's last note is quickly faded out about 1.5 seconds earlier than on the CD, where the same note is allowed to linger. The last 2 seconds on the CD have what appear to be vinyl source scratches. It was very easy to declick them without any adverse effect. In listening to the 45 again, I began to suspect that it, too, may have originally been sourced from vinyl, hence the earlier fadeout. It never was the cleanest-sounding 45 in the first place.
Stretching the CD track to 102.2% yields roughly the same pitch and speed as the US 45, with the stretched CD track (with full last note) timed at 2:56.1. Upon simultaneous playback, the 45 gradually slowed down a smidgeon, then caught up with the CD track at the song's ending(!)
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 18 February 2008 at 12:10am | IP Logged
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I also have "Smile a Little Smile" on the various artist compilation Everlasting Love (Sessions/Warner Special Products OPCD-4522), which is in mono. Like all other mono CD appearances, it too contains the oboe solo bridge prior to the song's final chorus. However, the Everlasting Love disc also has the 5.4 second keyboard intro that was edited off the U.S. 45 and LP release. Therefore, the current "neither the 45 nor LP version" database comment is correct here.
Clarification question for Tom Diehl: Are you saying the U.K. 45 version contains both the keyboard intro and the brief "ba-ba-ba-ba-baaa-ba" vocal interlude before the final chorus, just like the stereo version that has frequently appeared on CD?
Also, does anyone know if "Smile a Little Smile" was mixed and released in stereo on the Flying Machine's self-titled 1969 vinyl LP?
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satchdr
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Todd, I've just ordered a copy of the self-titled stereo vinyl LP through eBay Express and as soon as I get it, I'll give it a listen and report back to all. Dan
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PaulEschen
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My stereo vinyl LP has the song in mono, with no keyboard intro, and the
"oboe" (although I think this sounds like a cheap keyboard) solo. The LP
is Janus JLS 3007, with a dull orange and brown label (inner ring number
JLS 3007-A-1, and then the date 11-12-69).
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davidclark
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And reporting from Canada, my 45 on the Phonodisc label is the same as the U.S. 45 on Congress except that it contains the organ intro.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 9:33pm | IP Logged
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Interesting, David... So I guess it would be accurate to note then that the version on the Everlasting Love CD set is the "Canadian 45 version"?
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satchdr
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:32pm | IP Logged
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Well, my copy of the Janus JLS-3007 LP arrived today (same run off markings as PaulEschen noted above). The cut appears, actually, in "mildly" electronically reprocessed form on the LP. It can be noted not only from a slight separation of highs and lows between the left and right channel but also the left and right meters don't match, the right being louder than the left. Also, as Yah Shure stated, the last note fades quickly and there is either turntable rumble or some background tape noise after the quick fade. Can't tell which it is. It is also pitched slower (per Yah Shure's analysis) than the version that appears in true mono on Varese's "25 All-Time Greatest Bubblegum Hits" and on the Congress C-6000 45 but otherwise the three are identical. And, it contains the "oboe ending" and doesn't have the keyboard intro.
So, the "25 All-Time Bubblegum Hits" version is both the U.S. 45 version and a slower, but identical, true mono version of the U.S. LP version.
But, inquiring minds, at least this inquiring mind, still wants to know: does the "Super Hits of the 70s Vol. 1" stereo version, referred to as the U.K. 45 version by TomDiehl1, appear on any British LP?
Interestingly, both "Smile A Little Smile For Me" and "Send My Baby Home Again," which is the last song on the Janus LP, are both mono/"mildly" reprocessed stereo and the remaining eight cuts on the LP are true stereo.
Wow! Who'da thunk that this one-hit wonder's top ten tune would have so many interesting variations?
Dan
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 21 February 2008 at 5:29am | IP Logged
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satchdr wrote:
So, the "25 All-Time Bubblegum Hits" version is both the U.S. 45 version and a slower, but identical, true mono version of the U.S. LP version.
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Thanks for answering my question.
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anthology123
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| Posted: 22 February 2008 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
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I have also heard different versions, and there is no mention here if the song
is faded out at the end of the last vocal note (Rose - Marieeeeee...)
On some versions, it fades, others it does not.
I have the Super Hits of the 70s, and an Underground Records 45. I also have
a Solid Gold Saturday Night recording of the song with the keyboard intro
and the no bababa vocals and a cold ending. Is this a custom edit of the
song? I don't recall stereo or mono.
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satchdr
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 6:27am | IP Logged
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To bring this topic around one more time, I just received the UK single (Astor AP-1618) through eBay and it is in mono with the keyboard intro, no bababa vocals near the end and a nice clean last note "Rosemarieeee" with no fade or truncation. This version is also a bit faster, per Yah Shure's comments.
So, it appears that, consistent with davidclark's post, the UK 45 version and the Canadian 45 version are identical and different than the US single version.
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Topic: Flying Machine "Smile a Little Smile"
