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jimct
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| Posted: 28 April 2008 at 9:51am | IP Logged
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My commercial 45 has a listed time of (3:45), but an actual time of (3:41). Unfortunately, all current database CDs for this song that state "45 version" have run times ranging between (3:46) and (3:48).
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 28 April 2008 at 11:16am | IP Logged
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As irritating as it can be when CD run times don't match the length of their vinyl 45 and LP counterparts, I think pretty much every die-hard 45-version-on-CD collector would have to agree it's far preferable to have the song run a bit longer on CD where it can be custom faded to match the 45 than to have the song faded out on CD too soon and thus missing the closing seconds of 45 audio altogether!
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 28 April 2008 at 11:27am | IP Logged
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The song ends cold; is it a pitch difference?
Andy
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 28 April 2008 at 11:52am | IP Logged
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Ah, good question, Andy. I forgot about the cold ending.
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abagon
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 6:57am | IP Logged
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I compared the 45 (Drive 6269) with the CD (Rhino 72130 Soul Hits Of The 70's Vol. 20). As a result, there is a pitch difference.I used my software(STEINBURG "Clean3.0") and the CD's music file approximately corresponded to the 45's music file when the pitch level was upped at +12.
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jimct
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 8:50am | IP Logged
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Abagon, I don't have the software you do, so I usually can't get to the bottom of my own questions. To me, the info you just provided here is worth its weight in gold. Many thanks for your excellent analysis!
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 12:14pm | IP Logged
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Pitched my copy up +3% and the resulting file runs 3:41.
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abagon
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| Posted: 30 April 2008 at 12:30am | IP Logged
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Thank you for your response, Jim.
About my above post:
(STEINBURG "Clean3.0") is incorrect.
(STEINBERG "Clean3.0") is correct!.
sorry,abagon
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 30 April 2008 at 7:27am | IP Logged
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With regard to the pitch/tempo differences:
I have the 45 version on Rhino's The Disco Years Vol. 1 (1990), where it runs 109.0 BPM. There are digital clones of this mastering on Rhino's cheapie Disco Hits Vol. 2, and on Time-Life's Seventies Dance Party 1978-1979 (which has a different EQ than the other two) - both are also 109.0 BPM.
I have the LP version on Priority's Mega Hits Dance Classics Vol. 6, where it runs 111.8 BPM.
That's a difference of 2.5%.
I don't have the 45 handy (it's at home in a very large, unsorted box), but I tend to think that the Rhino CD has the proper pitch/tempo. This wouldn't be the first time that a Disco Years track is much slower than a Mega Hits Dance Classics track - "Disco Nights (Rock-Freak)" by GQ is 126.5 BPM on MHDC, but 123.2 BPM on DY and its Time-Life digital clones.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 30 April 2008 at 7:28am
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 8:46am | IP Logged
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Pat:
Just wanted to bring this thread back up because the database was never updated with Jim's commercial 45 run time info for Peter Brown's "Dance with Me" (The actual run time is 3:41, not 3:45 as stated on the record label). Also, it appears all CDs with a "45 version" comment should be amended to read "45 version but slower".
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 05 June 2011 at 6:47am | IP Logged
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Just discovered the 45 version on Betty Wright's The Essentials on Rhapsody and it runs 3:41, just like the 45.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 05 June 2011 at 7:45am | IP Logged
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what a great catch, eriejwg! I guess Betty being a mere featured vocalist on
this track caused it to be missed from the database. Great that it's on CD
and at the correct speed!
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mainrhythm
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| Posted: 05 August 2011 at 11:22pm | IP Logged
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I don't know if this info is needed, but the LP Version from the LP is 5:17 and 108.7 BPM (108.66)
Edited by mainrhythm on 05 August 2011 at 11:24pm
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 10 April 2021 at 7:22pm | IP Logged
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Thirteen years after I last looked at this song...
LP and 12 inch single version (printed 5:18)
The song uses an early drum machine, rather than a live drummer, so the tempo is rock-solid throughout the song. The LP version runs at 110.2 BPM throughout, with no drifts. (I got the tempo from a YouTube clip of the LP version being played on a Technics 1200 turntable.)
The earliest CD with the LP version is Priority's Mega-Hits Dance Classics Vol. 6 (1989), which is mastered a little too loud and clips a bit. It runs 111.8 BPM here. To bring it down to the proper LP speed, slow it down by 1.44 percent. The database should show the Priority disc as "LP version but faster".
The database shows two other CDs as having the LP version - Hot Productions' T.K. label compilation Best Of The Sound Of Sunshine (1991) and Collectables' Peter Brown full-length album A Fantasy Love Affair (released 1998). Rhino is responsible for the Collectables release, and I expect the sound would be quite nice. I don't own either one, though. Based on the run times, I expect that these run at the correct speed.
I do have the LP version on Ben Liebrand's Grand 12 Inches Vol. 10 (2013), where it sounds better than the Priority disc, and runs 109.8 BPM throughout. In practical terms, that's close enough to the proper LP speed so that you won't notice a difference. I routinely encounter speed differences like this from mastering to mastering. If you're a stickler, then speed this version up by 0.38 percent to exactly match the LP.
I'd bet a dollar that Grand 12 Inches Vol. 10 is a digital clone of the Collectables disc, but I can't confirm.
45 version (printed 3:45)
The 45 runs at 111.9 BPM throughout. (I got the tempo from another YouTube clip of the 45 version being played on a Technics 1200 turntable.) It's an edit of the LP, so it can likely be recreated from the LP version, but there's not much point in doing so because the 45 version is readily available on CD.
The oldest CDs I have with the 45 version both use the same analog transfer, and sound virtually identical: Rhino's Get Down Tonight The Best Of T.K. Records (1990) and Rhino's The Disco Years Vol. 1 (1990). The sound quality is great, but the song runs too slow at 109.0 BPM throughout. To bring this version up to the proper LP speed, speed it up by 2.66 percent. The same analog transfer is used on:- Rhino's cheapie Disco Hits Vol. 2 (1992) - digitally exactly 0.238 dB quieter than Get Down Tonight
- Sessions/Warner Special Products' 2-CD Ultimate Party Album (1992)
- Rhino's Didn't It Blow Your Mind Vol. 20 (1995) - absolute polarity inverted (insignificant), and EQ'd to have a little less high end
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 46 '70s Dance Party 1978-1979 (1997) - differently-EQ'd digital clone of The Disco Years
I'm willing to bet that every compilation that includes the 45 version is based on the Rhino mastering. The database shows the only CD having the 45 version at the correct 45 speed is Atlantic's Betty Wright The Essentials (2002).
Edited by crapfromthepast on 10 April 2021 at 9:54pm
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Fetta
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| Posted: 12 May 2021 at 5:45pm | IP Logged
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Awesome info Ron.
Here is a neat little piece that "60 Minutes" did in
1978 about the "Disco Craze". I post on this thread
because it you go to the 5:05 mark in the clip, you will
see Peter Brown in the Studio recording "Dance With Me"
and Dan Rather explaining the multi-tracking process.
A fun watch for those who might be interested. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3hy5BxDwkg&t=753s
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AdvprosD
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| Posted: 13 May 2021 at 6:04pm | IP Logged
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Peter Brown's tune is instantly catchy. Especially to my feet.
With that said, I was amazed that I did not stumble upon this tune until long after the 80's had come and gone. I absolutely totally enjoy this song.
Sometimes, I was known to get into projects and have a "Radio Off" period. One of these was during the popularity of Prince, "Raspberry Beret." Prince was
not among my favorites in the early days and I can see where I'd miss that song. But, the Dan Rather clip helped me also understand how I missed out on the
Peter Brown tune as well. I may have missed the short time it was a radio hit. Also, in 1978 I was still a few years too young to legally be in the clubs.
I just picked up a copy of the Betty Wright "Essentials", and ouch! That 45 version has some abrupt editing. I'm kinda glad now that I only mostly ever
heard the LP version. I know folks here praise purity, but it's sometimes a sacrifice. :)
Edited by AdvprosD on 28 May 2021 at 7:47pm
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Topic: Peter Brown-"Dance With Me"
