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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 25 May 2008 at 7:59pm | IP Logged
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I'm having some trouble sorting out some mono/stereo/electronically-reprocessed-for-stereo permutations of the song.
Two CDs that I'm certain of:
- Hitsville U.S.A Vol. II (Motown, 1993) is in mono. Both channels are completely identical throughout. (Glorious mono at that! It clips a tiny bit in places, but it really sounds terrific!)
- Solid Gold Soul - Superbad! The Soul Of The City (Time-Life, 2001) is in a real stereo mix, and sounds pretty good, although not as good as the true mono mix on Hitsville. The opening hi-hat and bass notes are centered. Around 20 seconds in, the wakka-wakka guitars are panned left. Around 1:17, the off-beat claps are panned right. Overall, it's a pretty nice, realistic stereo mix.
Now I know the Motown 45s were mixed in mono until 1972, and "Papa" was one of the last Motown 45s released in mono. I also know that most of the pre-1972 stereo mixes at Motown were thrown together hastily, and are usually pretty awful-sounding. Is the Time-Life stereo mix I described above actually the 1972 stereo mix put together by Motown?
I have "Papa" on three other CDs, and they're varying degrees of awful-sounding:
- Sounds Of The Seventies - 1972: Take Two (Time-Life, 1991) sounds pretty terrible. Opening hi-hat is panned left. To me, this sounds like electronically processed for stereo. Bleh.
- Motown Aniversary Collection (Silver Eagle Records SED-10214, 1983) sounds even worse than the 1972 Take Two CD - same electronically processed stereo, and 6 dB quieter!
- Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits - 1972 (Rhino, 1989) sounds worlds better than the above two, but I can't quite tell if it's stereo or mono. The soundstage is very narrow, but there is some real separation in places, even if it's very slight. The opening hi-hat and bass are centered, as is the wakka-wakka guitar at 20 seconds in. Is this a fold-down of the stereo version? I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out what this is...
Edited by crapfromthepast on 25 May 2008 at 9:31pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 25 May 2008 at 9:01pm | IP Logged
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crapfromthepast wrote:
| I also know that most of the pre-1972 stereo mixes at Motown were thrown together hastily, and are usually pretty awful-sounding. |
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This can often times be said about their mono mixes, too. Does anyone know why so many of them sound like the tape deck was not calibrated properly? They sound like this on the original 45s, too, so it wasn't that the problems showed up later. You would think that someone with a decent set of ears would've noticed how bad some of them sounded.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 19 March 2018 at 7:07pm | IP Logged
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LP version (12:04)
Motown's Psychedelic Soul runs 12:01. Motown's All Directions CD runs about 20 seconds short at 11:44. Both are in stereo. I don't have either of these CDs.
45 version (6:53)
The 45 is mono.
The first disc to include the 45 version was Motown's Temptations collection Compact Command Performances 17 Greatest Hits (1985), where it runs 6:53. Unfortunately, it's electronically processed stereo, not true stereo. It's a very slight (E), but it's still an (E). I don't hear any added reverb or other unpleasantries, and if this is all you have, this version is quite listenable. There are digital clones on:- Motown's 25 #1 Hits From 25 Years Vol. 2 (1985) - digitally exactly 0.8 dB louder
- Motown's 2-CD Anthology (1986) - digitally exactly 0.2 dB louder
- Motown's Motown 9000 Series (1987) - digitally exactly 0.22 dB louder
- Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1972 (1989) - digitally exactly 0.8 dB louder
All of the above sound positively pristine compared to the drastic (E) on Silver Eagle/Motown's 3-CD Motown 25th Anniversary (copyright 1983), which drowns in reverb. The same reverb-laden version is on Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 13 1972 Take Two (1991). Avoid both of these.
The 45 version first appeared in mono on Motown's 4-CD Hitsville USA Vol. 2 (1993), where it runs 6:56, and sounds great. This is the go-to disc for the 45 version in true mono.
Edit of the LP version in an unsuccessful attempt at creating the 45 version (6:57)
There was no good-sounding stereo version of the song at a reasonable run length (as if 7 minutes was reasonable), so for the 1994 Emperors Of Soul collection, they cut the LP version down in an attempt to mimic the 45 version. The sound quality is great, but it doesn't match up with the 45. The mix is different, and some of the later edits might be in the wrong place (I didn't spend too much time with this). There are digital clones on:- Motown's 2-CD Temptations set Anthology (1995; not the same as the 1986 Anthology) - digitally exactly 1.03 dB louder
- MCA's Soul Train 25th Anniversary Hall Of Fame (1995) - digitally exactly 2.12 dB louder
- Time-Life's Legends Of Soul Vol. 1 Temptations (2000) - digitally exactly 1.03 dB louder
- Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 30 Superbad (2001) - digitally identical
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 20 March 2018 at 5:20am | IP Logged
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Don't forget the mono single version has a low-volume conga track in sections, the lp edit does not.
Andy
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 20 March 2018 at 1:09pm | IP Logged
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I have it on the Rhino Can You Dig It? and sounds
pretty good. Ron, what are your thoughts on that source
since it must be a Bill Inglot production.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 20 March 2018 at 1:14pm | IP Logged
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I don't have the Rhino Can You Dig It set, but I'd bet a dollar that it's based on the mastering for Hitsville. For the Like Omigod set, Rhino used the same analog transfers as a lot of earlier Rhino discs. I'd assume it's the same for Can You Dig It.
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Topic: Temptations - Papa Was A Rolling Stone
