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jimct
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| Posted: 25 October 2008 at 12:25pm | IP Logged
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I just happened to be playing this song today off of my 2-CD "Essential" collection, and to me this CD version sounds musically "busier" to me than I recall from 1970, Extra horns and guitar licks appear to me to be present that I don't remember hearing in there back in the day, but I wonder if this could just simply be the result of a quality remastering job? Could someone with a better "ear" than I happen to possess please give this one a quick listen for me, and let me know what you think? Thanks.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 25 October 2008 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
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Without actually listening, I will say this about that "Essential" collection: Many of the songs have phase problems corrected. It certainly sounds much better than the old "Greatest Hits" which I had become accustomed to hearing. There were certain instruments on that album (i.e. the bass guitar) that were out-of-phase. Would that mean that these stereo mixes are actually new on "Essential?"
I'll take a more careful listen later, but I suspect the new "clarity" you're hearing is due to these corrections, and you might be onto something about them being new mixes.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 25 October 2008 at 9:45pm | IP Logged
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The stereo mixes of "Thank You", "Everybody Is A Star" & "Hot Fun In The Summertime" were created by Bob Irwin & Vic Anisini.
Although they sound very good, surprisingly they emulated the instrument/vocal balance of the tracks on the quad 'Greatest Hits' LP (albiet in-phase) more than the sound of the mono-only 45s.
Although I am extremely grateful for Bob & Vic's stereo mixes, I would really enjoy hearing the sound of the 45s in true stereo ("Everybody Is A Star" is the closest of the three to the 45 sound).
Andy
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aaronk
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| Posted: 25 October 2008 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
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So, these are new mixes? Thanks for that info, Andrew. Is the 'quad stereo' the reason for the odd sound on the "Greatest Hits" LP, or is it really just because of out-of-phase tracks/instruments?
When you say you want to hear them in "true stereo," what exactly do you mean? The Essential mixes are in true stereo, are they not?
"Everybody Is A Star" on Essential is my favorite mix of that song, although there's the extra horn overdub before the fadeout. Interestingly, TM Century used that (or a similar) mix on one of their GoldDiscs, long before Essential came out. I wonder where that mix originally surfaced with the additional horn overdub. Both the Greatest Hits and mono version on Can You Dig It do not have that overdub.
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MMathews
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| Posted: 26 October 2008 at 6:37am | IP Logged
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Hi
Re:
Thank You
Hot Fun In The Summertime
Everybody Is A Star
Aside from the Quad mixes,
those stereo mixes actually pre-date "Essential" by quite a few years. Sly was in possession of his masters, so i heard.
They were passed around a little prior to cd issue, and i had heard them played for me, but i believe the first to make a commercial CD was "Thank You"...then the others surfaced on the Legacy series.
These were mixed just for mono at their time of their release, and I suppose when the albums were being assembled it was easier for them to re-channel the mono masters then to try to duplicate the mixes in stereo.
Now, each song has some small differences in the stereo that Andrew and Aaron refer to. I compared Thank You carefully and found that the tracks in the left and right channels in the stereo are at differing levels in the mono mix so at parts the horns and guitar are louder or lower depending where they are in the mono mix.
In "Hot Fun", the entire mix is basically the same, however the end chorus was edited differently for the mono, but they didn't do that for the stereo, they simply faded it as is.
The biggest differece however has always been the EQ! The mono mixes sounded "punchier" because they were more compressed and were rich in bass, making their stereo counterparts a little "wussy" by comparison. There was also more reverb added to the mono ones.
Earlier cd's sounded completely flat for these, at least Essential has some of the bass restored.
If interested, i created my own versions of "Thank You" and "Hot Fun" that more resemble the mono, with the added reverb restored, and the EQ more like the mono. I edited Hot Fun to have the 45 fade.
-MM
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 26 October 2008 at 8:30am | IP Logged
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To Aaron:
The original stereo mix of "Everybody Is A Star" with the horn 'overdub' surfaced first on the SQ-QUAD pressing of 'Greatest Hits' vinyl (it was a rechanneled mono 45 mix on the stereo 'Greatest hits' pressing).
Bob Irwin & Vic Anesini remixed it for 'Essential' with no quad-matrix effects, but it sounds closer to the quad mix than the 45 mix.
Apparently my post was confusing to you; if you have any aditional questions that Mark didn't clear up, please post!
Andy
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 14 February 2009 at 4:52pm | IP Logged
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Jim reports that the actual and printed commercial 45 run time of Sly & the Family Stone's "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)" is 4:47. The reason I post this is because database CD entries widely range from 4:38 to 4:50.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 21 May 2011 at 1:24pm | IP Logged
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Does the mono 45 differ from the stereo versions (like are there two saxophones on the sequence at (0:30) on the 45 as there are on the stereo versions), or does the 45 more resemble the electronic version on their original Greatest Hits CD?
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KentT
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| Posted: 21 May 2011 at 6:45pm | IP Logged
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The 45 more resembles the rechanneled Stereo on Greatest Hits. Both LP and CD versions. The 45 is still the best version of all of them. And was available in mono to the end of the Memory Lane reissue singles. When the GH LP was compiled, Epic couldn't find the Stereo masters for the LP. When the Quad SQ LP was compiled, Sly found the masters at home so they were used.
Edited by KentT on 21 May 2011 at 6:46pm
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MMathews
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| Posted: 23 May 2011 at 3:17am | IP Logged
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If anyone be interested,
I did make enhanced stereo mixes that are far closer to the punchy, in-yo-face mono hit versions of both "Hot Fun" and also "Thank You"
With the latter, i cant imagine why they never *finished* the mix - this is a problem i've found with other stereo mixes as well. (and part of why some are under the impression that to hear the hit properly, mono is the only answer...)
Well, i grew up as, and still am, a head-phone listener, so mono sounds really ODD to me, as you'd imagine under headphones people werent designed to hear a whole song playing in the center of their head!
I am one of those that needs some directional cues and spatial elements in my music, the same as i get in real life. (humans cant hear in true mono unless they are deaf in one ear.)
So, the stereo "Thank You" was missing some stuff, like some compression, EQ that really punched the beat up, and reverb on the vocals, all present on the original mono mix. They were forgotten in the stereo. If one would like to hear these effects on the stereo mix, lemme know, happy to send a copy.
Oh, by the same token, i also feel a properly created anthology SHOULD contain both the stereo AND original mono mixes. Everyone wins. But i dream on.....
-MM
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 23 May 2011 at 9:25am | IP Logged
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Would LOVE a collection like that.
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 24 May 2011 at 12:25am | IP Logged
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MMathews wrote:
In "Hot Fun", the entire mix is basically the same, however
the end chorus was edited differently for the mono, but
they didn't do that for the stereo, they simply faded it as
is.
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And, the one thing that always annoyed me about the stereo
mixes of "Hot Fun..." is that the electric piano is too
loud compared to the mono single mix.
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anthology123
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| Posted: 24 May 2011 at 1:06pm | IP Logged
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I found the new stereo mixes to be clearer, but at the same time, rather
jarring. I am so used to hearing those horn parts that sound so much clearer
now as more like a train horn, the way they slide in and out rather than a
group of horn players. I wondered if they did that on purpose to make it
sound like that by compression and other means in order to achieve that
sound, which to me was critical for the sound of Thank You. Like a post
above said, I would like to hear the single mix in stereo.
MM, would love to hear a copy.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 07 May 2019 at 8:46am | IP Logged
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KentT wrote:
| The 45 more resembles the rechanneled Stereo on Greatest Hits. Both LP and CD versions. The 45 is still the best version of all of them. And was available in mono to the end of the Memory Lane reissue singles. When the GH LP was compiled, Epic couldn't find the Stereo masters for the LP. When the Quad SQ LP was compiled, Sly found the masters at home so they were used. |
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Anyone think that's worthy of a "45/LP version" difference? My thought would be yes if the original LP has the extra instrumentation while the 45 doesn't.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 07 May 2019 at 1:40pm | IP Logged
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I have a question about the stereo version on Higher!
. Is that faithful to the 45 or is that a new stereo
version?
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 07 May 2019 at 1:45pm | IP Logged
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I should have listened first so the database needs a
correction. I went back and listened to my copy from
Higher! and I listened to an online copy and both
are MONO. The database lists it as being STEREO.
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VWestlife
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| Posted: 28 March 2022 at 10:02pm | IP Logged
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So do all the CDs listed as containing a stereo version of "Thank You..." actually contain the SQ quadraphonic mix, or has a true stereo mix of it ever been released?
I know for example, "Sounds of the Seventies: 1970" contains the quad mix, likely taken from vinyl because I can hear some clicks and groove distortion.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 29 March 2022 at 6:57am | IP Logged
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VWestlife wrote:
So do all the CDs listed as containing a
stereo version of "Thank You..." actually contain the SQ
quadraphonic mix, or has a true stereo mix of it ever been
released? |
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Not exactly. Most (if not all) of the CDs which contain a
stereo version of "Thank You" are remixed closer to the
sound of the SQ Quadraphonic mix (albeit without the SQ
Quad phasing artifacts) as opposed to the sound of the hit
mix.
Andy
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 29 March 2022 at 8:32am | IP Logged
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I count five versions of "Thank You" that have been released on CD:
4:49 Greatest Hits [dreadful fake stereo LP version from Greatest Hits album]
4:50 Higher [mono 45 version]
6:20 Music For The Next Generation [non-hit 1990 extended stereo remix]
4:48 Essential [non-hit 1990 stereo remix by Bob Irwin and Vic Anesini]
4:50 Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 1 1970 [non-hit stereo fold-down from quad mix]
The mono version also appears on Rhino's In Yo' Face Vol. 1 (1993), but the tail of the fade is about 6 beats longer on Higher (after accounting for a small speed difference). It sounds really good on both discs. Higher is $$$$, while In Yo' Face Vol. 1 is $; if you can live with the shorter length, the Rhino disc might be a good choice for you.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 29 March 2022 at 12:59pm
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 30 March 2022 at 5:41am | IP Logged
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I've got the strangest thought...
I wonder if Bob & Vic didn't find the original multi-track,
but actually found the 4-track Quad remix BEFORE the SQ
matrix was applied and made a two-channel mix out of it?
Anybody else feel this was a possibility?
Andy
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Topic: Sly & The Family Stone-"Thank You..."
