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budaniel
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 10:24am | IP Logged
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Hey all. Just curious. Why are so many determined to recreate single edits
of songs? Ever since I was a little kid, and first discovered that very often
my 45s and K-tel records included EDITS of album versions (I think I first
became aware of the situation when I got a full length Village People LP--
only to find my favorite hits were much longer than on my K-tel records!),
my focus has always been to make sure I have the full length version of a
song as it was originally recorded by the artist. Not to say single "mixes"
aren't important to me sometimes (for instance, the single of "Look What
You've Done To Me" by Boz Scaggs includes instrumentation not in the LP
mix), but the idea of an "edit" has always made me feel ripped off! :-)
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 11:00am | IP Logged
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<the single of "Look What
You've Done To Me" by Boz Scaggs includes instrumentation not in the LP
mix)>
Do you recall what other instrumentation was in that mix? I simply made an edit of the album version and THOUGHT that I had the single version!
But to answer your question, having made some single edits (though not as many as some of the other people on this board), I think for many people they want to hear the version they grew up with, the version they always knew from the radio.
Certainly with single MIXES, they were generally done to sound better and usually contain MORE instrumentation, but why people would want the edited versions of recordings -- I think it's familiarity.
In some cases, the long versions have slowed down sections that don't "feel" like a regular part of the song, like Roger Hodgson's "Had a Dream" -- or just completely different sections. I can only compare it to visiting an old friend -- if you went to visit a friend you hadn't seen in a couple years, and all of a sudden he had a third arm, you'd say, "Get rid of that extra arm!"
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edtop40
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 12:05pm | IP Logged
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myself.........i'm trying to get every top 40 song as it appeared on the charts in it's 45/cassingle/cd sgl version in a digital format.....just my hobby.....as far as an esthetic reason, i DO like the short songs..........my feeling is if you can't say what you have to say in 2 to 3 minutes, your wasting my time.......i have no need for 6, 7, or 10 minute songs......
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aaronk
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 12:19pm | IP Logged
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I agree for the same reasons, especially the point of familiarity that Edisonlite brings up. Also, most of us already have the longer LP versions of these songs, but we want the 45 versions, too. Like Edtop40 said, we're collectors, and some of us are just trying to "complete" our collections by having both the LP and/or 45 versions of songs.
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budaniel
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 1:05pm | IP Logged
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by default, due to so many compilation purchases, I also have both the
single and album versions in many cases. Occasionally, an edit seems
better--take for instance the LP version of Abacab by Genesis--ugh! The
single definitely gets to the point! Of course, I guess part of it for me is a
focus on dance music. But a lot of single edits cut out verses, vocal ad
libs and things such as that--that to me goes beyond just having say an
instrumental intro that's twice as long.
Now, for the boz Scaggs dilemma--in the single version (which I still have
on a K-tel album called The Elite--but really want on CD because the
vinyl pressing was not very good), I believe it's in the break between the
first chorus and the next verse, there is what I guess you could call a sort
of "twanging" instrumentation that is totally missing from the album
version! That's the only reason I still have that k-tel record in my
collection, because every other song on it was long ago replaced on CD.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 1:34pm | IP Logged
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budaniel wrote:
Now, for the boz Scaggs dilemma--in the single version (which I still have
on a K-tel album called The Elite--but really want on CD because the
vinyl pressing was not very good), I believe it's in the break between the
first chorus and the next verse, there is what I guess you could call a sort
of "twanging" instrumentation that is totally missing from the album
version! That's the only reason I still have that k-tel record in my
collection, because every other song on it was long ago replaced on CD. |
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I have a couple of CDs with a long version. They do feature a guitar solo during the break between the first chorus and second verse (the solo is repeated in the break between the second chorus and the reprised chorus--much of which was edited out in the single version).
Does that mean that these CDs don't have the true LP version? Now that you mention it, I do recall hearing a version on the radio many years ago without a guitar solo (which was not edited).
I can't add anything that hasn't already been said on your other initial question.
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budaniel
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 2:28pm | IP Logged
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anyone else have the 45 who could clarify what I'm trying to say? The
instrumental break is just completely different on that version as
compared to the LP version.
We might have to start a separate "Look What You've Done To Me" topic
to clear this one up....
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budaniel
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 3:31pm | IP Logged
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ok, I listened at home, and at approximately the 1:50 mark on the single version of "Look What You've Done to Me", the chorus ends and bleeds into a twangy guitar. On the LP version, the chorus background vocals almost fade out into silence, and a very quiet piano then takes over. The twangy guitar finally shows up for the last few notes.
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JMD1961
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
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I'm coming into this one a little late, but felt I should comment on the single/album version discussion.
A lot of my desire to have the 45 version of a song is due to a personal project that I'm working on. Basically, I'm making my own "time-life" series, only trying to one up them, but including ALL the hits from each year. Not just the soft rock, pop, country, R&B and various other styles, but all of them together, just as they appeared on the charts.
So, with the 45 versions, I kill two birds with one stone. First, I get the version that actually charted. And second, since singles generally ran shorter than album tracks, I can get the most "bang for my buck" per CD.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 4:06pm | IP Logged
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budaniel wrote:
| ok, I listened at home, and at approximately the 1:50 mark on the single version of "Look What You've Done to Me", the chorus ends and bleeds into a twangy guitar. On the LP version, the chorus background vocals almost fade out into silence, and a very quiet piano then takes over. The twangy guitar finally shows up for the last few notes. |
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Hmmm. As stated before, I have two CDs that Pat cites as having the LP version of that song (one runs (5:14), the other (5:12)). In both cases, that guitar solo appears in the break that you mentioned (the guitar solo is also reprised in the break that would've been excised by the single version).
There's a CD with a (5:27) version, which is the Urban Cowboy soundtrack CD. I wonder if that's the version that you have on vinyl (I don't have that CD to note whether or not guitars appear, plus it's 13-15 seconds longer than the other commercially-available versions). And was there a Boz Scaggs LP that had the song that might account for the (5:1x) version (which would have spawned the (4:11) edit)?
Edited by sriv94 on 10 November 2005 at 4:08pm
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 5:01pm | IP Logged
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As far as the single edits question goes... When you're collecting Hot 100 hits, the single version is the version that charted... they didn't measure album sales. The longer version isn't what the charts are referring to.
Also, just the collector mentality... it's definitely HARDER to collect the single edits, and I suppose it's fun (and aggravating) to have a difficult goal. And because we collectors just need something to be anal-retentive about.
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budaniel
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 5:20pm | IP Logged
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Hm--the "long" version I have IS on the Urban Cowboy soundtrack! So, does that mean that the LP version on other CDs may actually be the version into which the single was edited, which includes the guitar solo? If someone can verify, I will have to pick up one of the other CDs--and that would also mean the Urban Cowboy version is indeed a different version.
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Paul Esch
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 7:19pm | IP Logged
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The version on the Urban Cowboy soundtrack is different from
what is on Hits! because there is no immediate guitar break
after the first chorus; it is a different break before the second verse
starts up. Also, on my vinyl 45 version, the backing vocals are
different. Unlike the soundtrack version, which has female backing
vocals, the 45 version has the Eagles (or at least Frey, Henley and
Schmit) doing the backing vocals. The "Eagles" version is on My
Time: A Boz Scaggs Anthology, although not the 45 length/edit.
Edited by Paul Esch on 10 November 2005 at 7:30pm
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budaniel
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| Posted: 10 November 2005 at 9:12pm | IP Logged
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thanks so much for the info. My topic actually ended up helping me out. I'm gonna grab that Boz Scaggs anthology.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 11 November 2005 at 9:58am | IP Logged
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budaniel wrote:
| thanks so much for the info. My topic actually ended up helping me out. |
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Isn't that what we're here for? :)
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 25 February 2006 at 10:42pm | IP Logged
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Paul E writes:
<The version on the Urban Cowboy soundtrack is different from
what is on Hits! because there is no immediate guitar break
after the first chorus; it is a different break before the second verse
starts up. Also, on my vinyl 45 version, the backing vocals are
different. Unlike the soundtrack version, which has female backing
vocals, the 45 version has the Eagles (or at least Frey, Henley and
Schmit) doing the backing vocals. The "Eagles" version is on My
Time: A Boz Scaggs Anthology, although not the 45 length/edit.>
Question to Paul E and Budaniel who have this Boz Scaggs "Anthology" box (or anyone else): Can the 45 version be extracted from this "Anthology" version that has the Eagles background vocals?
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sriv94
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Yes. Remove everything between roughly (3:40) and (4:41) of the Hits! LP version (which is what was used for the anthology) and that should give you the 45.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 26 February 2006 at 10:47am | IP Logged
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OK -- that's exactly what I did about 5 years ago -- I used the Hits! CD version to make the edit. I thought the above info was saying that a different version was used to make the single edit (like the Urban Cowboy mix). Glad I already have the right version and don't have to buy a box set for one song (and in this case, what would end up being 3/4 of one song!)
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Grant
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| Posted: 26 February 2006 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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budaniel wrote:
Hey all. Just curious. Why are so many determined to recreate single edits
of songs? Ever since I was a little kid, and first discovered that very often
my 45s and K-tel records included EDITS of album versions (I think I first
became aware of the situation when I got a full length Village People LP--
only to find my favorite hits were much longer than on my K-tel records!),
my focus has always been to make sure I have the full length version of a
song as it was originally recorded by the artist. Not to say single "mixes"
aren't important to me sometimes (for instance, the single of "Look What
You've Done To Me" by Boz Scaggs includes instrumentation not in the LP
mix), but the idea of an "edit" has always made me feel ripped off! :-) |
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Well, I haven't read the other posts yet, so I don't know if it has been mentioned, but K-Tel butchered the 45 edits! They had to in order to cram like 15-18 tracks on one side! So, what you heard on those awful K-tel albums weren't even the singles! It was a rare occasion that you did get close to it.
And, remember that many singles were mixed differently and sound different than the LP versions.
As for single versions themselves, the 45s and radio promos, they were usually what got played on the radio, so we radio listeners got used to hearing the edited versions. And, some of those edits are superior to the long, drug out LP versions.
And, lastly, it's fun to recreate or collect single versions with our software. Remember, a lot of 45 versions are rare or unique, and need to be preserved just like those LP versions.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 04 March 2006 at 8:31am | IP Logged
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I'd say that Grant's comments nicely sum up my thoughts on this topic as well. I try to collect DJ, 45, and LP version/lengths of every Top 40 hit. But since LP version/lengths are readily available on CD 99% of the time, it tends to shift my focus toward hunting down the 45 and DJ version/lengths.
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