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Indy500
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 1:57pm | IP Logged
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Was this a mono single? My fold-down sounds like crap and all the labels I've found on ebay don't say or in the case of one plug-side promo indicate STEREO.
How about Ohio or other 1970 singles?
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jcr102
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 2:12pm | IP Logged
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I don't know about the U-S, but my Atlantic single in Canada was mono. Ohio was also mono. However, I don't know if they were fold-downs. I do think they sounded pretty compressed.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 3:53pm | IP Logged
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Stock U.S. copies of "Woodstock" and "Ohio" were mono. The DJ 45 of the non-LP "Ohio" was mono/stereo, making it the only source of the stereo studio version until the So Far compilation came along in 1974.
The other two 1970 CSNY singles - "Teach Your Children" and "Our House" - were also mono on U.S. stock copies.
Edited by Yah Shure on 26 January 2010 at 3:55pm
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Indy500
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 4:15pm | IP Logged
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And I'm guessing that no CDs domestic or import have mono versions?
Yah Shure, any idea if these were dedicated mono mixes? Certainly 'Ohio' was if it was 4 years before the song showed up in stereo.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 4:54pm | IP Logged
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Indy, I've never sat down and compared the stereos and monos to tell if they're dedicated or not. FWIW, all of the initial gold label Atlantic Oldies Series CSNY 45s were also mono.
You misinterpreted what I said about "Ohio." To clarify: The 1970 DJ 45 was mono/stereo, meaning that the song was available in stereo from the very beginning, albeit only on the DJ 45. It took four more years for it to show up commercially for the first time in stereo on So Far.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 5:00pm | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
You misinterpreted what I said about "Ohio." To clarify: The 1970 DJ 45 was mono/stereo, meaning that the song was available in stereo from the very beginning, albeit only on the DJ 45. It took four more years for it to show up commercially for the first time in stereo on So Far. |
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Not true. It also appeared on the Atlantic compilation album "The Super Hits Vol. 5". Album was copyright 1970, so the song was available in stereo not long after its chart run. This album also contains the promo edit of "Whole Lotta Love" in stereo.
Edited by Hykker on 26 January 2010 at 5:14pm
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 5:42pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the correction, Steve.
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 6:23pm | IP Logged
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I recently compared the mono stock 45 "Our House" to the stereo LP version and I couldn't hear anything to determine that it was was a dedicated mix. Sounds like a fold down on that track.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 7:47pm | IP Logged
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Bear in mind the So Far version of "Ohio" runs (3:05) and is much slower than the 45 (I do believe the correct 45 speed is available on Neil Young's Decade 2-CD set, although I don't believe it's mono).
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 7:54pm | IP Logged
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To Hykker:
Yes! I remember buying 'Super Hits Vol. 5' (maybe around Christmas 1970) hoping "Ohio" was in stereo and behold it was! You see, as a ten-year-old, I had never heard it in stereo (only AM mono rockers were in my market); I actually thought it was only recorded quickly in mono because of the rushed topical nature of the song.
To Indy500:
I really don't have any concrete answer to your question, but please remember around 1970 Atlantic had a habit of pressing a "CSG Processed Mono Master" for some of their mono singles if they had no dedicated mono mix & there might be some mono-compatibility issues with a fold-down.
Andy
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 26 January 2010 at 8:53pm | IP Logged
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AndrewChouffi wrote:
| around 1970 Atlantic had a habit of pressing a "CSG Processed Mono Master" for some of their mono singles if they had no dedicated mono mix & there might be some mono-compatibility issues with a fold-down. |
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Andy, that's true for the two 1969 CSN singles ("Marrakesh Express" and "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes".) Even the gold-label Oldies Series reissue (13049) has the "CSG processed mono master" note on the labels of both sides.
The CSNY 45s from 1970 don't have any CSG notation. Neither does the gold-label #13050 reissue of "Teach Your Children"/"Woodstock."
And my apologies again for the earlier error on the Atlantic Super Hits Vol. 5 issue. No station I ever worked at had that volume. I'd forgotten all about that series, and will have to dust off Vol. 3, along with The Super Groups. I don't think I've heard Vanilla Fudge's "Take Me For A Little While" in stereo from beginning to end since I bought that album in the cutouts back in the '70s.
Doug, I'll compare the stereo side of the "Ohio" DJ 45 with the Decade track. I've never owned So Far on either vinyl or CD.
Oh, and as long as Andy brought it up: Has anyone ever experienced any real problems with those mono CSG 45s? I've never noticed anything objectionable with the ones that I have (the CSG mono DJ 45 of Gordon Lightfoot's "Carefree Highway"/"Seven Island Suite" was one I ripped not that long ago and didn't notice anything unfavorable about either side.)
UPDATE: The stereo DJ 45 of "Ohio" clocks in at (2:59), which is two seconds longer than the (2:57) track from Neil Young's Decade CD. They fade at the same point (the CD fade has lots of hum that is absent from the 45) but the CD track runs faster than the stereo DJ 45.
The mono side of this same DJ 45 - a Specialty pressing - is three seconds shorter, at (2:56). The fadeout is a tiny tad quicker than on the stereo side, but the difference is insignificant. Speed differences account for the three-second variation.
Edited by Yah Shure on 26 January 2010 at 10:04pm
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KentT
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| Posted: 15 February 2010 at 8:38pm | IP Logged
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Many of those old CSG Mono 45 singles had phase issues. Free's "All Right Now" was a very bad offender and sounded phasey on AM Radio. I am a broadcast engineer and had to deal with that one. We finally had to get a White Label Promo 45 of it from another station and cart it.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 16 February 2010 at 8:38am | IP Logged
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To KentT:
Free's "All Right Now" commercial single was (awful sounding) CSG STEREO. I believe the promo was straight mono. What version of "All Right Now" was CSG MONO?
Andy
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Hykker
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| Posted: 16 February 2010 at 9:24am | IP Logged
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AndrewChouffi wrote:
Free's "All Right Now" commercial single was (awful sounding) CSG STEREO. I believe the promo was straight mono. What version of "All Right Now" was CSG MONO?
Andy |
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There were 2 promos of this, one with the 4:14 version in mono/stereo, and another with an edit. I only have the former, don't recall if the latter was short version mono/stereo, or short/long.
Some stock copies had a listed time of 2:70 that were marked mono. They were actually stereo and the 4:14 version. I had one of these once, not sure if I still have it.
The song itself was pretty bad sounding. The single, while much punchier was kind of distorted. The album version was cleaner but rather thin sounding.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 16 February 2010 at 9:53am | IP Logged
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To Hykker:
Thanks for the information!
Andy
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 21 February 2010 at 6:33pm | IP Logged
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The mono side of the 4:14 white label promo of "All Right Now" makes no note of being a CSG processed recording. Trail on the mono side says A&M 2005-16, but the stereo side has CSG stereo etched into it, as A&M CSG 2005S-16.
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KentT
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| Posted: 26 February 2010 at 8:30pm | IP Logged
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The CSG Stereo singles usually had very bad phase issues.
As a result, they weren't fit for broadcast. Free's "All
Right Now" was one of the worst offenders. The DJ Single
had a Mono side as well as the CSG Stereo phasey, mucky
sounding mess. The only place you could find that better
mono mix.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: CSN&Y -- Woodstock and 1970 45s
