Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Billy Ocean

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Topic: Billy Ocean - Caribbean Queen 45?

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MMathews
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Posted: 29 October 2010 at 5:37am \| IP Logged

Hi all,

Re: Caribbean Queen.
Need assistance for a fading memory. I searched for an an older thread for this song but it mainly discussed the "African / European Queen" versions.

Back in '84 i purchased the 45 for this, and then later the 12" single. I never owned the "Suddenly" album.
I got rid of the 45 in the early 90's.

I remembered the 45 as being a different mix than all the CD issues listed as "45 version but..."
I remember the 45 having less echo on everything, especially the strings at the intro, and the bass-line started right at the beginning, along with the strings.

Another minor difference i remember, in the first verse right after the line "she said i was the tiger she wanted to tame"... the little sample of Vincent Price's laugh from Thriller was harder to hear, slowed down a bit more and shorter. At the time i wondered if that's what it was, but i wasn't sure. But in the 12" mix (now the only mix) you can clearly hear it is Vincent, it's not as slow and they left in one more chuckle.

I just recently pulled out the old vinyl 12" which is labeled "Special Mix".... and when it was new, that's what it sounded like to me, a remix for the 12".

When i first purchased the Greatest Hits CD, my ears thought "this is an edit of the 12" mix, not the 45 mix."

So now i went on Rhapsody and played the LP version and I'm hearing the same mix as my 12" single. Everything now seems to be this one mix, which i thought was a remix.

Does anyone still actually have the Jive 45? Has history been re-written?

I could just be recalling wrong after 25 years, but I'm sure enough to have to ask...

Thanks!
MM

jimct
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Posted: 29 October 2010 at 8:01am \| IP Logged

Mark, I own both an original stock and promo 45 for this song. Let me know if you have a dub preference (the promo 45 is easier for me to access at the moment), and I'll be happy to shoot it out to you; give me a few days, though. I'll use the e-mail address that you currently have listed in your profile.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 8:49pm \| IP Logged

The song debuted on the US charts a good two months before it hit the UK charts, so I think the song was a hit here before it was tweaked for the album and for UK single release. (Both hit in mid-to-late 1984.)

The original US release is Jive 45 JS 1-9199, printed 3:32, actual 3:40, 113.9 BPM throughout, no "mixed by" credit on label

The closest match to the US 45 I've found is on the 50-CD promo set The A-List (1994), which runs about 113.7 BPM throughout with very slight tempo drifts. It may even be taken from vinyl; there's evidence of noise reduction on the fade (the highs drop off slightly).

There's a nice-sounding version on Warner Special Products' 3-CD After Hours (1990), which runs a tiny bit faster than the 45 at 114.3 BPM and runs a tiny bit longer at 3:42. The extra length is at the very tail end of the fade. The same analog transfer is used for Razor & Tie's 2-CD Totally '80s (1993) and JCI's Only Dance 1980-1984 (1995). Both sound extremely similar to After Hours.

There's an even better sounding version on Rhino's Billboard Top Hits 1984 (1992), which also runs 3:42 and 114.3 BPM. There's a differently EQ'd digital clone on Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties 1984 (1994).

All of the above are the US 45 version. The easiest way to tell is that the bassline starts right away after the drum intro.

There's a slightly different mix on the 7:55 LP version, which I have on Arista's Perfect 10 III (1986). Unlike the 45, it's got no bassline in the first 20 seconds or so. There are other subtle differences, like the Vincent Price laugh from "Thriller" after the line "type that she wanted to tame" - it's barely there in the 45, but it's very pronounced in the LP mix.

I don't have the LP, but I'm willing to bet that there's a "Mixed by Nigel Green" credit for this song; there's no such credit for the US 45. (And I don't have the UK LP either.) I think this came out after the US 45 had run its course; the US 45 had a "forthcoming" album credit on it.

The UK 45 is edited down from the LP mix.

The UK 45 is Jive 77, printed 4:05, actual 4:05, about 113.8 BPM throughout, but there are clear edits with slight tempo variations before/after. It's also a different mix than the US 45, and indicates as such on the label by "Mixed by Nigel Green". I didn't document the edit points.

This UK 45 edit/mix is what's found on the US Greatest Hits CD from 1989, where it runs 4:06 and 113.9 BPM. The same analog transfer is used for the UK 2-CD Now 1984 (1993, fade is truncated by a few seconds) and for Disky's 8-CD Greatest Hits Of The '80s (1998).

So unless I'm mistaken, the 3:40-ish versions are all the "45 version" (US 45, that is), the 4:06 versions are all technically an "edit of the LP version" (and also the UK 45 version), and the 7:55 versions are all the LP version.

FYI - The other versions of the song you may encounter:

Caribbean Queen (instrumental) - B-side of US 45 Jive JS 1-9199, printed 3:32
European Queen - B-side of UK 45 Jive 77, printed 4:05, actual 4:06, "Mixed by Nigel Green" and matches UK 45 mix
African Queen - B-side of "Mystery Lady", US 45 Jive JS1-9374, printed 3:40, actual 3:38

The US 12" to "Mystery Lady" (Jive JD1-9373) has both African Queen (printed 8:20) and European Queen (printed 8:14) as B-sides, but with a credit of "Mixed and engineered by Bryan 'Chuck' New", so it's not the same mixes as the hit versions.

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The Hits Man
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Posted: 05 November 2010 at 9:52pm \| IP Logged

The 45 is a different mix. It is dry, and is missing some
instrumentation that the LP version has.

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MMathews
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Posted: 12 November 2010 at 10:56pm \| IP Logged

Hi again,

Sorry i was away from the board for a bit, been packing up to move this collection again. Ugggg.

thanks for all the great info, guys, as always.

And, i just visited my yahoo mail... so thanks VERY much for the 45 dubs you sent Jim!
will reply more in the email...

-Mark M

waldo
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 7:03pm \| IP Logged

The Hits Man wrote:

The 45 is a different mix. It is dry, and is missing some
instrumentation that the LP version has.

agreed. i don't like the shorter single version. it sounds like a different vocal take too unless there's something wrong with this youtube clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U0ZSVxiZUM

i like the UK 45 better.

Edited by waldo on 14 November 2010 at 7:03pm

Indy500
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Posted: 16 November 2010 at 7:01am \| IP Logged

I've yet to find the 12" version (#1 on the Billboard Dance charts) on CD anywhere.

waldo
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Posted: 16 November 2010 at 5:52pm \| IP Logged

all the Suddenly CD's have a 7:54 version isn't that the 12"?

Edited by waldo on 16 November 2010 at 5:54pm

Indy500
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Posted: 18 July 2011 at 8:11pm \| IP Logged

Caribbean Queen (No More Love On The Run) (Extended Mix)

12" mix is finally coming to CD on Cherry Red label

budaniel
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Posted: 19 July 2011 at 8:03am \| IP Logged

It looks like the European release did not have the 12" version:

http://www.discogs.com/Billy-Ocean-Suddenly/release/2353845

So the new Cherry Red release is probably a remaster of the European release, which is why they are including the '12"' version, which to those in the U.S. has always been the album version...

http://www.cherryred.co.uk/cherrypop/product.php?display=bil lyocean

MMathews
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Posted: 19 July 2011 at 1:22pm \| IP Logged

For Indy500,

The U.S. 12" version is what they put on the US LP. So, if you locate the "Suddenly" CD you will have the US 12" single.
I did a vinyl dub of the 12" a week before i started this thread.
I then went online to all sources of the "Suddenly" album, and noticed it has the same version as the 12" single, same remix, same length.
And, as Ron's excellent research above shows, the Greatest Hits CD and many others actually contain the U.K. 45 version, which in the U.S. is an edit of the 12" single and U.S. LP version.
The U.S. 45 is apparently only on a few cd's.....

Indy500
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Posted: 19 July 2011 at 6:24pm \| IP Logged

Thanks for the info, there's some other interesting bonus tracks as well. I'll time out this 12" version just on the chance there is some odd variation.

budaniel
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Posted: 20 July 2011 at 12:16pm \| IP Logged

Here's a question. Does the 5 minute version on European releases of the CD, where it is called "European Queen/Caribbean Queen", actually have different lyrics?

budaniel
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Posted: 08 August 2011 at 3:57pm \| IP Logged

Just to resurrect this thread, I just received my reissue from Cherry Red, and the 'twelve inch' version of Caribbean Queen is the same as the U.S. album version as far as I can tell...however, it fades 20 seconds later. So it runs 8:16 instead of 7:56! And, track 1, just like on the U.S. album, is the full 7:56 version of the song! So, unless there are some distinct differences in the mixes, you basically get the same exact song twice, simply faded earlier on one time.

Edited by budaniel on 08 August 2011 at 3:58pm

Indy500
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Posted: 08 August 2011 at 4:37pm \| IP Logged

Thanks for that, Amazon U.S. has held up my order.

boynamedfoo
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Posted: 14 July 2012 at 4:05pm \| IP Logged

The database still indicates the 4:03 version as (45 version but :24 longer and additional background vocals at the very end), this thread seems to have reached a conclusion otherwise. The opening bassline/lack of bassline is the give away to me.

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