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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 10:44am | IP Logged
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Since several Three Dog Night Dunhill hits are available in mono on CD, can it be presumed that they were taken from LP masters? Given that several indicate "45 version" are the mono 45 and mono LP versions the same in those cases?
Could we perhaps hunt down mono LPs to obtain the elusive 45 versions of "Mama Told Me Not To Come," "Eli's Coming," "One," and perhaps "Let Me Serenade You"?
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 12:46pm | IP Logged
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Aaron, commercial mono LPs were phased out in the U.S. during 1968, before the first Three Dog Night album was released. Those mono Three Dog Night hits are from the mono 45s.
Here's why those mono LPs disappeared. :)
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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 1:11pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Yah Shure. My next obvious question is where did those mono 45 versions originate from on CD, if the Dunhill masters were dumped? Are you saying they are all mastered from vinyl when you say they are from the mono 45s? I've never detected anything in those recordings that sounded like vinyl dubs, but maybe I haven't listened closely enough.
Edited by aaronk on 24 November 2010 at 1:13pm
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 1:18pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| where did those mono 45 versions originate from on CD, if the Dunhill masters were dumped? |
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Yeah, I've always wondered that myself, Aaron. I'll speculate the mono mixes of those singles were spliced into a greatest hits album at some point, and that's why they survived.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 1:23pm | IP Logged
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Great theory, Brian!
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 2:35pm | IP Logged
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I just gave a listen to those four tracks on TDN's two vinyl Dunhill greatest hits collections:
On 1971's Golden Bisquits:
"Mama Told Me Not To Come"
"Eli's Coming"
"One"
On 1974's Joy To The World - Their Greatest Hits
"One"
"Let Me Serenade You"
And they're all the stereo LP versions.
TDN was one of the biggest selling acts (if not the biggest act) in Dunhill's history, so it's possible that all of their masters were retained by virtue of their higher profile and catalog value. At least that's my guess.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 2:49pm | IP Logged
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Either way, it's just good to have the correct single mixes available on CD! Now, I just need to find great sounding mono sources for those tracks...
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KentT
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 8:22pm | IP Logged
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ABC purchased Dot Records in 1975. When they did, they purged a lot of mono or multitrack master tapes if stereo or rechanneled tapes existed. Back then EMI in England was the long standing ABC Records licensee. EMI saved their copy master dubs from the USA. Those copy tapes are all we have of singles masters or mono content not existing in true Stereo. This is why few singles masters in mono or outtakes exist for ABC or for Dot Records unless the master tapes were in other vaults.
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 27 November 2010 at 7:27pm | IP Logged
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My understanding is that the Three Dog Night material was licensed to Dunhill which followed to ABC and now to MCA. So if it's a continued licensing arrangement, Three Dog Night may have their own master storage, which could be why more mono has survived.
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KentT
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| Posted: 29 November 2010 at 11:25am | IP Logged
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Dunhill owned this material, not leased it. No original tapes of the singles masters. Likely second or third generation copies in the UK or West German EMI vaults available.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 29 November 2010 at 6:30pm | IP Logged
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Wishful thinking then. How about a UK or West German Three Dog Night mono singles collection.
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Steve Carras
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| Posted: 24 January 2014 at 12:06am | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
Aaron, commercial mono LPs were phased out in the U.S. during 1968, before the first Three Dog Night album was released. Those mono Three Dog Night hits are from the mono 45s.
Here's why those mono LPs disappeared. :) |
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It's been yanked. However, here's the title..Bob Dylan-Stick with Mono. That explains it all as far as I;m concerned.:)
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 28 January 2014 at 9:52pm | IP Logged
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A few mono tapes survived the purge. This is why a
couple of them made onto the CD.
If you are talking about "Celebrate: The Three Dog Night
Story", some of those singles weren't the actual single
versions. With "Eli's Coming", Bill Inglot tacked on the
piano coda from somewhere. It ain't the 45s. I have the
45, and that coda is longer and louder.
"Mama Told Me Not To Come" isn't the single version
there, either. Wrong mix. I have the 45.
There are subtle differences sonic differences on the
mono single "Easy To be Hard". Like "One", it's a tossup
as to if one can accept it as the single or not.
Some stereo mixes are the same as the mono mixes to my
ears, as "One" is.
And, of course, "Sure As I'm Sitting Here", and "Play
Something Sweet (Brickyard Blues)" are album versions.
One has to do their own edits if they want to recreate
the actual single.
It has come to my attention that "Let Me Serenade You" is
another dedicated single mix I have to look for.
Man!
I sure hope someone like Real Gone Music finds some
European tapes of all the dingles and gets them all on
CD.
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 29 January 2014 at 7:45am | IP Logged
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Well if you're searching for the dedicated single mix on "Let Me Serenade You" I suggest you find a DJ copy, because as far as I know all of the stock copies were duophonic stereo. Only the DJ 45 has the dedicated mono mix without the simulated stereo.
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Steve Carras
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| Posted: 30 January 2014 at 10:01pm | IP Logged
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The Hits Man wrote:
A few mono tapes survived the purge. This is why a
couple of them made onto the CD.
If you are talking about "Celebrate: The Three Dog Night
Story", some of those singles weren't the actual single
versions. With "Eli's Coming", Bill Inglot tacked on the
piano coda from somewhere. It ain't the 45s. I have the
45, and that coda is longer and louder.
"Mama Told Me Not To Come" isn't the single version
there, either. Wrong mix. I have the 45.
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I have those, and the original DUNHILL/ABC copies (not reissues) of them,too.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 25 March 2014 at 3:37pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| Thanks, Yah Shure. My next obvious question is where did those mono 45 versions originate from on CD, if the Dunhill masters were dumped? Are you saying they are all mastered from vinyl when you say they are from the mono 45s? I've never detected anything in those recordings that sounded like vinyl dubs, but maybe I haven't listened closely enough. |
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Thanks to you, I think we're finding out.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 25 March 2014 at 6:56pm | IP Logged
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Well, the only mono mix that appears to have been dubbed from vinyl is "Joy To The World." The other mono mixes, like Liar, Shambala, and Family Of Man, as well as a couple B-sides, all appear to be from tape. That means some of those tapes must have been sitting in the US vaults at the time the Celebrate comp came out.
Edited by aaronk on 25 March 2014 at 9:54pm
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Aaron Kannowski
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 26 March 2014 at 4:51pm | IP Logged
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Aaron, Why do you say "Joy To The World" was a disk dub?
The mono single version was issued on the Rhino
Billboard Top R&R Hits: 1971 CD in 1988. It was its
first CD appearance.
We will all be stoked if someone can find all of the
correct 45 versions on tape. But, even if some must come
from vinyl, that's OK too, just as long as the
restoration and mastering make it so you can't tell.
In the meantime, i'm on a mission to track down all of
the 45 versions.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 March 2014 at 5:48pm | IP Logged
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Hey Grant, I recently posted this in another thread:
After some careful analysis, I can say that the mono 45 version of "Joy To The World" that's been floating around on CD is a vinyl dub. This explains why it fades earlier than the actual 45 and has some strange clicks throughout, in addition to some distortion in places.
In order to hide vinyl noise, the keyboard intro has been carefully spliced on from the stereo version and folded down to mono. The way I can tell is because on the stereo mix, the percussion mics are left up. Even though the drums haven't started, I can hear the rattle of the snares and possibly a faint hi-hat tap before the first drums on the stereo mix. None of this can be heard on the true mono mix. But, it can be heard on the 45 version on CD, which can only mean it was borrowed from the stereo.
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Aaron Kannowski
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sriv94
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| Posted: 26 March 2014 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
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The Hits Man wrote:
Some stereo mixes are the same as the mono mixes to my ears, as "One" is.
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Isn't "One" slightly sped/pitched up on the 45 compared to the LP?
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Three Dog Night mono versions
