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NightAire
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 3:36am | IP Logged
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Hope this isn't too far off topic; I'm trying to determine what version of Daryl Hall & John Oates' "Jingle Bell Rock" was released as a single & if the same or different version went to radio.
I have Daryl's version & John's version, but no version that goes back and forth. Looking up the video on YouTube, I also find versions that are all Hall or all Oates, but no duet mix. The promos listed on Discogs.org also list one side Daryl, one side John.
Did I dream a duet version of this recording?
Can somebody check & tell me what the "official" release had on it? I would have sworn I heard a duet version on the air as the "standard" version everybody plays.
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 7:17am | IP Logged
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My recollection is that you couldn't buy it until the CD era, when BMG started licensing it for compliation CDs and chose the "Daryl" side and called it "Hall & Oates". At radio I recieved the promo copy as you described above, and a 12" picture disc that was also with one side "From John" and the other side "From Daryl". Everyone in radio played the "From Daryl".
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budaniel
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 7:56am | IP Logged
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yeah. i have that picture disc 12" version with daryll's vocal on one side and John's on the other side.
One thing to note about the song's appearance on CD, I have yet to find a CD that doesn't end the song before the final drum hits--on the record, the song false ends cold and then the drum hits come after a pause. The song on every CD I have features daryll's vocals and concludes at the first false end. Even on that import 12" compilation (forget if it's volume one or two) the drum hit is missing!
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 8:45am | IP Logged
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Also, both sides of the digital 45 (available on iTunes) conclude with the false ending.
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995wlol
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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NightAire wrote:
Did I dream a duet version of this recording?
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No, you didn't dream it. The duet version was all I heard on the radio growing up (99 1/2 WLOL, Minneapolis). I'd guess it's an in house edit that ended up being shared among many stations. Fortunately I taped it at the time, which has allowed me to make an exact re-creation using my promo 45. PM me if you'd like to hear it.
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jimct
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 11:58am | IP Logged
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It is a real credit to the "eagle-ears" on the board to remember so many unique details/versions of so many different hit songs. There is absolutely no doubt that the H&O was an in-house edit. Everything that Bill Cahill said above was also the exact same experience at our station. I think it is only natural, as we examine/solve more and more cases over time, that a higher number of new queries wil end up with the correct answer being "an in-house/custom edit". Why? Human nature. From as far back as 1964's Beatlemania, ambitious local radio MDs & PDs have always been looking to somehow boost their ratings, by offering listeners something unique and different - especially if there was more than one viable Top 40 competitor in their market. But how? Money is always tight in radio, so frequent, large on-air giveaways of new cars/big trips/lots of cash was just not possible. And, if you're not a major market, you could rarely, if ever, hope to snag a significant piece of "exclusive audio" of any kind. So you then have to get creative. And it only really took a little imagination, time, effort, reel-to-reel tape and a razor blade to give listeners an alternate version of a hit song, that was quite often a real improvement over the original. Don't forget, this was their full-time job, and it was often just simply part of the gig for many MDs/PDs to try and think/find a way to somehow gain a competitive edge in any way possible; this was one of the most popular. As such, there were a lot of them done by a lot of different, creative people. Some were as simple as just chopping an intro. For example, my local Top 40 station growing up chopped the intro off for "Swearin' To God", Cat Stevens' "Another Saturday Night", and did a million % better short edit for Herbie Mann's "Hijack", than the simple fade on the promo 45, at around (3:00). WABC skipped the entire string intro for Cher's "Dark Lady", and started instead from the loud drum beats just before her vocals started. There are countless others. There's really no way to know for sure about each case until we put them under the microscope. But many, many songs have already received that kind of treatment from us. As a result, fewer and fewer of them going forward will turn out to be legit, official promo versions (especially from 1989 and earlier), whereas more and more will turn out to be customs, in my opinion. Just some food for thought, my fellow version-ologists! :)
Edited by jimct on 12 December 2010 at 12:01pm
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NightAire
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 1:37pm | IP Logged
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This absolutely answers my question; thank you, everyone!
Chances are, when I heard a "duet," like 995wlol said, it was an in-house edit or it was somebody else's in-house edit that was being passed around.
It's one thing to try to match up your version of a top 40 hit to what was sold in the stores; it's a completely different thing, sometimes, to match it up to what top 40 radio was playing at the time!!! :)
Thank you, again, for your help. I was concerned about bringing this up as I have no evidence this made the top 40 at the time, but it certainly has become a perennial for many stations today.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
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budaniel wrote:
| One thing to note about the song's appearance on CD, I have yet to find a CD that doesn't end the song before the final drum hits--on the record, the song false ends cold and then the drum hits come after a pause. The song on every CD I have features daryll's vocals and concludes at the first false end. Even on that import 12" compilation (forget if it's volume one or two) the drum hit is missing! |
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Dang! You're right! That's a bummer. I have that 12" import collection from Japan, and there's no drum hits on the end of either version. My TM Century GoldDisc has it dubbed directly from vinyl, and they faded it before the drum hits, too.
Edited by aaronk on 12 December 2010 at 1:46pm
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Hykker
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 2:15pm | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
| Don't forget, this was their full-time job, and it was often just simply part of the gig for many MDs/PDs to try and think/find a way to somehow gain a competitive edge in any way possible; this was one of the most popular. As such, there were a lot of them done by a lot of different, creative people. Some were as simple as just chopping an intro. |
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Over the years I've done my share of custom edits for stations I've worked at. The reasons varied...sometimes there either wasn't a radio edit (or we never got serviced with it), other times we thought we could do better or maybe it was an album cut we wanted to use but for whatever reason wasn't airable as it was.
I tried to create a duet of JBR using both sides of the promo 45, but was never able to get it to sound right...there was a phase-y-ness I just couldn't get rid of. This was in the mid-ish 90s, and all I had to work with was a rather basic multitrack editing program called SAW. Maybe with a more sophisticated one I could have nailed it. I don't remember which solo we ended up using.
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budaniel
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 4:44pm | IP Logged
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the craziest thing to me is, I checked the video online to see if perhaps it featured the duet version, but every version I found has JOHN on lead vocals!!! I would think if they weren't going to use the duet version on the video, they would have used Daryll's vocals. Unless of course, there were two edits of the video for each vocal track!!!
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995wlol
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 5:03pm | IP Logged
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There are indeed different video versions with Daryl singing and with John sining. As of a couple of weeks ago, both were available on YouTube. I believe there are slight differences in the video between the two versions as well (different takes at certain points).
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RichM921
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| Posted: 12 December 2010 at 7:30pm | IP Logged
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995wlol wrote:
| There are indeed different video versions with Daryl singing and with John sining. As of a couple of weeks ago, both were available on YouTube. I believe there are slight differences in the video between the two versions as well (different takes at certain points). |
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You are correct on all of the above. A couple of years ago I did an A/B comparison of both videos and surprisingly there were many little differences.
aaronk wrote:
| My TM Century GoldDisc has it dubbed directly from vinyl, and they faded it before the drum hits, too. |
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Yep, and it's John's version! I always wondered why they didn't use Daryl's. Maybe his side of the 45 was scratched!
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budaniel
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| Posted: 13 December 2010 at 10:16am | IP Logged
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I figured there had to be different versions of the video, because I remember them playing it on MTV back in the day and I didn't remember it being the John vocal track.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 13 December 2010 at 11:05am | IP Logged
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RichM921 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
| My TM Century GoldDisc has it dubbed directly from vinyl, and they faded it before the drum hits, too. |
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Yep, and it's John's version! I always wondered why they didn't use Daryl's. Maybe his side of the 45 was scratched! |
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I seem to recall GoldDisc AX1 has John's version on the "red" disc (older version) and Daryl's version on the GoldDisc3. I definitely have copies of both versions, and both are from vinyl, and at the time I dubbed them I couldn't find any other source.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 13 December 2010 at 11:19am | IP Logged
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Thanks for the iTunes tip on this recording. Seems like iTunes has far more Digital 45's than some of the other services.
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RichM921
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| Posted: 13 December 2010 at 6:21pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| I seem to recall GoldDisc AX1 has John's version on the "red" disc (older version) and Daryl's version on the GoldDisc3. I definitely have copies of both versions, and both are from vinyl, and at the time I dubbed them I couldn't find any other source. |
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Ah, that could be. I was only familiar with the red AX1 disc. I didn't realize that Daryl's version existed on another GoldDisc
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aaronk
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| Posted: 13 December 2010 at 10:35pm | IP Logged
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Yes, I'm 99% sure of this, Rich, especially since I don't know how else I would have ended up with a cleaned up vinyl dub of Daryl's version (complete with noise reduction). It's burned onto a disc with a bunch of other Christmas songs that were also on that same GoldDisc.
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abagon
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| Posted: 14 December 2010 at 10:27am | IP Logged
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I have the US pressing vinyl 45. I purchased it from an online US used record store in the 90's. RCA JB-14259 red vinyl "NOT FOR SALE" the listed time "2:09" Jingle Bell Rock From Daryl/Jingle Bell Rock From John
I ask a simple question.
How did public get this item in 1983 while this was "NOT FOR SALE" record? Is this a Santa Claus present?
--abagon
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 December 2010 at 11:21am | IP Logged
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There were no copies of the 7" record for sale, unless a seller happened to come across some promo copies and was willing to sell them. I suppose the song may have been issued on a Christmas compilation.
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abagon
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| Posted: 14 December 2010 at 10:42pm | IP Logged
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Thank you for the answer, aaron! I image that the record company have given the 45 to retail record stores for free at the time, perhaps.
FYI. Concerning 80's Christmas song, "Christmas Time by BRYAN ADAMS" was released as commercial 45 in Japan.
--abagon
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Hall and / or Oates - Jingle Bell Rock
