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Brian W.
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| Posted: 16 February 2011 at 10:27am | IP Logged
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It's another A&B sides comp. I'm loving these. Sure hope they do one of Elvis's '60s singles soon.
http://store.royorbison.com/royorbisonthemonumentsinglescoll ectioncd.aspx
Edited by Brian W. on 16 February 2011 at 10:29am
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Hykker
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| Posted: 16 February 2011 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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Not to ask a dumb question, but why are there 20 songs on the "A sides" disc and only 19 on the "B sides" disc? Did 2 of his singles have the same B side?
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davidclark
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| Posted: 16 February 2011 at 10:28pm | IP Logged
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I had read that his mono 45s were simply fold-downs of the stereo mixes
(with the exception of "Oh, Pretty Woman" with its different line). Can
anyone chime in here? I would hope that the mono singles were unique
mixes.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 17 February 2011 at 3:54pm | IP Logged
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davidclark wrote:
I had read that his mono 45s were simply fold-downs of the stereo mixes
(with the exception of "Oh, Pretty Woman" with its different line). Can
anyone chime in here? I would hope that the mono singles were unique
mixes. |
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That's true, but the problem is getting the original Bill Porter mixes. Several of Orbison's compilations were remixed, so folding them would not result in an identical match to the 45s. To get all the A&B sides in the original stereo mixes, you'd have to buy several CDs.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 17 February 2011 at 6:45pm | IP Logged
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I didn't know about the remixes. Does the Rhino "For The Lonely..." comp
contain remixes? If so, which are?
The database doesn't indicate any remixes for Roy, but then again, it often
doesn't contain remix info for songs that are. thanks.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 17 February 2011 at 7:34pm | IP Logged
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davidclark wrote:
I didn't know about the remixes. Does the Rhino "For The Lonely..." comp
contain remixes? If so, which are?
The database doesn't indicate any remixes for Roy, but then again, it often
doesn't contain remix info for songs that are. thanks. |
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I believe that's the one that's all remixed. The old "All Time Greatest Hits," the one with the white cover with gold lettering, has all the original mixes. However, it does not contain all the B-sides.
Edited by Brian W. on 17 February 2011 at 7:50pm
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 17 February 2011 at 9:52pm | IP Logged
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There are several differences. Fixes were made on "In Dreams" for the mono single as Roy came in slightly late at one point so the line was re-sung. But they didn't fix the stereo version.
Love Hurts is an entirely different vocal take on the mono 45.
I never checked the All Times Greatest Hits CD for phase problems but some of the original LPs of that complilation were out of phase, you couldn't fold them down as they sounded bad in mono.
Edited by Bill Cahill on 17 February 2011 at 9:53pm
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 5:03am | IP Logged
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Hykker wrote:
Not to ask a dumb question, but why are there 20 songs on the "A sides" disc and only 19 on the "B sides" disc? Did 2 of his singles have the same B side?
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Yes, "Distant Drums" was the B-side for both "Falling" and "Let The Good Times Roll".
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 16 April 2011 at 11:07pm | IP Logged
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Steve Hoffman had some things to say a few weeks ago about the Orbison mono/stereo situation. He knew Bill Porter (the recordings' original engineer) personally:
Quote:
First, if Vic [Anesini] is involved it's going to be neat.
Second, my friend Bill Porter carefully (I repeat) CAREFULLY laid out his stereo image, even going so far as to hardwire certain pots in a fixed position so they couldn't be moved. The drums he (very futuristicly) placed in the center, the other instruments to the left and right in a tasteful array. Bill was very proud of his stereo work. To say his stereo mixes were just pre-mono is just silly talk.
When Bill monitored in mono he was getting his balance between vocal and instruments. However, this is pointless to even discuss because the stereo mixes WERE NOT USED IN CUTTING MONO RECORDS.
What does this mean? It means that Monument went to these stereo two-track tapes and bounced them to a full track mono machine tape dub adding more reverb and a lot more compression so that the vocal is smooshed down too much (for my taste).
IF YOU WANT A TRUE SONIC PICTURE OF WHAT BILL PORTER WAS GOING FOR, YOU MUST L+R THE STEREO VERSIONS. This will give you the best aural picture of what Porter heard in the studio before the extra mono compression, echo and EQ. If you want what the singles sounded like, get this new comp (I assume the mono dubs will be used and not the stereos)
That being said, it will be interesting to see what Vic comes up with.
I miss Bill Porter, he was a great friend and it was always exciting to talk to him. RIP. |
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Edited by Brian W. on 16 April 2011 at 11:07pm
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 26 April 2011 at 4:31am | IP Logged
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I listened to this today online through Thumbplay which is the same as Rhapsody.
Oh, Pretty Woman is the single version with the altered line without the rechanneled effects that marred other releases of the single version on CD. Good news there.
However "In Dreams" does not match what I have on my mono "More of Roy Orbison's Greatest Hits" LP. I don't have an original 45 but I thought it matched that mono LP, so somebody who has the 45 will have to double check.
Here's how you can tell the difference: Where Roy sings "I remember that you said goodbye, it's too bad that all these things" the word "goodbye" is shorter on the "More" mono LP, and Roy comes in on time for "it's too bad". On the stereo version the word "goodbye" is extended and he is slightly late on the "it's too bad" line. If the single matches the mono "More" LP version, than they either used a stereo fold down for this track or there were two copies of the mono single, and they used the version that wasn't fixed.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 April 2011 at 7:07am | IP Logged
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Bill, I will send you a dub of the 45 shortly for your comparison.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 26 April 2011 at 9:59am | IP Logged
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Hopefully, only one song is different than the 45. If anyone has time, please post any additional differences from the true 45 versions.
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 26 April 2011 at 8:34pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the reference copy Aaron. It matches the mono "More of Roy Orbison's Greatest Hits" version with the "improved" section as I mentioned above. So unless there was a second version of the 45, it's not the mono single mix on this collection. I don't know where Sony got this mono version from, it could be just the LP version newly summed for this collection, or it could be from a master of a later Monument re-issue 45, the ones they put out in the 70's distributed by CBS contained some stereo mixes summed to mono, like "Oh, Pretty Woman".
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jono
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| Posted: 28 April 2011 at 1:49pm | IP Logged
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A couple of things upon first listen:
1) Bill is right, "In Dreams" on this new Singles Collection does not match my Monument 806 45 in that spot around 2:05-2:10. However, my other cd that arrived in the same package was the Ace import cd "The London American Label Year By Year 1963". This cd, believe it or not, has the correct mono 45 version of "In Dreams" on it, as far as I can tell. (I bought this cd because it has the single version of Robin Ward's "Wonderful Summer" - it's nice to get an unexpected bonus!)
2) "(Say) You're My Girl" does not have the 9 second intro common to the stereo versions ("Hello, may I have this dance with you"). It makes up for lost time somewhere, however, because the run time is about the same as the stereo versions. I personally don't have the 45 of this one.
3) Blue Angel seems to run faster than the stereo versions, as its run time is about 7-8 seconds shorter. Again, I do not have the 45 to compare.
No other major differences noted at first glance.
Jon O.
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Bill Cahill
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My original mono Greatest Hits album runs 2:52 and my CBS distributed stereo LP run 2:54 on Blue Angel. Both have a label time of 2:50. I don't know if the mono LP mix matches the mono single. In comparison to both Lps there is a significant mix difference on this new release. As Roy starts singing, the background vocalists sound unusually loud. Then, as Roy sings "Just because he said goodbye" it sounds as if the engineer noticed the background vocalists were too loud and quickly dropped their level, obscuring the second "yep" of the "yep yep um" at that point. Then the background vocalists almost sound too low and are brought back up. There is no obvious adjustment of the background vocalists on my mono or stereo LPs. If somebody has an original 45, they'll have to check to see if the sloppy mix was on that too which would make this mix a correct single mix. If not, it's an alternate mix.
Edited by Bill Cahill on 28 April 2011 at 5:13pm
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 28 April 2011 at 5:59pm | IP Logged
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Bill Cahill wrote:
| My original mono Greatest Hits album runs 2:52 and my CBS distributed stereo LP run 2:54 on Blue Angel. Both have a label time of 2:50. I don't know if the mono LP mix matches the mono single. In comparison to both Lps there is a significant mix difference on this new release. As Roy starts singing, the background vocalists sound unusually loud. Then, as Roy sings "Just because he said goodbye" it sounds as if the engineer noticed the background vocalists were too loud and quickly dropped their level, obscuring the second "yep" of the "yep yep um" at that point. Then the background vocalists almost sound too low and are brought back up. There is no obvious adjustment of the background vocalists on my mono or stereo LPs. If somebody has an original 45, they'll have to check to see if the sloppy mix was on that too which would make this mix a correct single mix. If not, it's an alternate mix. |
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The "Blue Angel" mystery thickens: The mono version on the Ace London-American Label Year By Year 1960 CD runs 2:49 and is noticeably slower than the new Monument CD (which runs 2:42) and with a noticeably different mix than the new CD. The Ace London-American series has generally gotten it right on 45 versions, although there perhaps the overseas 45 differed from the U.S. version. It looks like this case will require a comparison with the actual U.S. commercial 45 to resolve, and I don't have one.
But with this song and "In Dreams" I'm growing more suspicious about incorrect (i.e. not the true 45) versions being used on the new CD.
Edited by Roscoe on 28 April 2011 at 6:00pm
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 28 April 2011 at 6:29pm | IP Logged
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OK somebody moved the speed bar on my Techniques SL-1200 (a crime punishable by death!).
The correct times for the mono greatest LP version of Blue Angel is 2:49 and stereo 2:51.
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 28 April 2011 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
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One final note on LP versions of "Blue Angel": On my Classic Records vinyl reissue (mono) of the Lonely & Blue LP, it also runs 2:49 and matches the mix on the Ace CD.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 29 April 2011 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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Our mono commercial 45 for "Blue Angel" by Roy Oribison (Monument 425) states a time of (2:43), but actually runs (2:49). I'll start a new thread for this as well.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 04 May 2011 at 10:49pm | IP Logged
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Mystery probably solved regarding "In Dreams." There was a 1982 reissue as a part of the Monument Golden Series (WS8 03455) that used this version that's on the Singles Collection. Very likely they used that tape by mistake when compiling the new collection. Thankfully the correct original 45 version (from tape) is on the the CD "The London American Label 1963" from Ace.
Edited by Brian W. on 04 May 2011 at 10:49pm
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Topic: Roy Orbison mono singles comp coming 4/5!
