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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 11:00am | IP Logged
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I normally never post messages here that aren't related to songs on CDs. But this topic of the many Glee singles has come up here before, so I thought this might be of interest to some. I read in the paper today:
'Glee' surpasses Elvis for most Hot 100 singles:
The act with the most songs on the Billboard Hot 100 chart isn't the Beatles, Elvis or Michael Jackson. It's the cast of "Glee." In just 18 months of appearing on the charts, the FOX TV series has set the record for the most songs on the Billboard chart in the chart's 52-year history. This week, "Glee" debuts six songs on the chart, giving the series a total of 113 songs that have sold enough copies to place on the chart. That's five more than the now-second-place Elvis Presley, who had 108.
And a comment:
--Amazing that a chart feat that took Elvis Presley 26 YEARS to accomplish, the cast of 'Glee' has accomplisthed in just 1.5 years! And who knows what their total will be by the time the tv series comes to an end? Just goes to show that we live in different times, where the Hot 100 is compiled very differently. Still, I wonder if years or decades from now, the cast of 'Glee' will be thought of as an act that was as big as Elvis. (I don't think so.)
Edited by EdisonLite on 18 February 2011 at 11:01am
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Jody Thornton
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 12:42pm | IP Logged
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See, to me (and I don't see anyone changing my mind on this) the Glee cast has nowhere near achieved the same success as Mr Presley. Back in his prime, you had to go to the store and cough up what would be $5.00 in today's money, and buy a 45-rpm disc. Today, you can legally download songs in the comfort of your home office. There's no effort to the latter scenario.
And I would not think that Billboard Hot 100 reflects the same similarities between sales and airplay today as in Elvis' day. There was more of a relationship between the two in the past. Funny, I thought that airplay was now a bigger component of today's charts; but does the Glee cast have this many singles on the radio? Really?
I guess my problem is getting over the absence of a physical carrier to distribute music. When I download something, I don't really feel like I can boast that I legitimately have a copy of the song or recording. Whereas, if I purchase a vinyl disc, I feel like I "have" it. Moreover, most audio codecs don't come close to the fidelity of recording on physical media - and yes I am including (I am going to regret being quoted as saying this, but here goes my analog pride ...) compact discs (can't believe I said that). But there seems to be no collectibility element to music anymore.
Unless any one of you have figured out how to frame an MP3 on the wall. ;)
Edited by Jody Thornton on 18 February 2011 at 12:43pm
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 1:58pm | IP Logged
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To me, this just means that the charts are broken.
Nothing against the Glee Cast, but 6 new entries on the
Hot 100 in the same week? Really? Only to disappear
next week? Is a chart that shows this really
representative of anything useful?
I see this as very similar to the mid-'90s when airplay-
only songs weren't eligible for the Hot 100, like
"Lovefool", "Don't Speak", "Mr. Jones", etc. The
situation corrected itself somewhat after-the-fact when
later editions of the Joel Whitburn books included the
airplay-only charts as part of their rankings.
This situation is clearly going to warrant some after-
the-fact cleaning-up. I don't know what the Whitburn
folks can do to fix this, aside from toss out the entire
Hot 100 and use only the airplay charts.
Going forward, I'd suggest making radio airplay, or at
least some promotion of the track to radio, a
prerequisite for entry onto the Hot 100.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 2:02pm | IP Logged
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Jody, I agree and disagree with some of your statements. I agree that the 'Glee' cast will probably never be seen as an act that was as big as Elvis (on the charts, or otherwise.) But I don't agree with your statements about the lack of a physical single and its impact.
As an example, if one were to compare, say, Britney Spears' career and Barry Manilow's career (and Britney's actually had a longer chart span than Barry), I don't think it would be fair to say Britney hasn't had the kind of influential/big career as Barry had in his day because her fans are mostly buying downloaded singles and Barry's fans all bought 45s. I think the impact of Britney on young kids today is every bit as strong as Barry's was in his day.
Edited by EdisonLite on 19 February 2011 at 12:23am
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bwolfe
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 2:07pm | IP Logged
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Someone once told me that in the old days "we all sang from the same page."
Which means that in today's fragmented music world its hard to say what is or isn't a hit.
Does a hit means sales or airplay or both?
Today's music has very little attachment to young people.
Back in the day it was special when one of your favorite performers was on a TV show.
You could actually see them in person.
Maybe if I saved up enough money I could buy their latest single or if I saved even more I could buy an album.
The car ride from the store seemed an eternity until I could get home and throw my new 45s on the stereo.
I feel that passion is gone.
There's such a cold feel to downloading an mp3.
I do it when I can't find music otherwise.
I can't accept Glee outdoing anyone whether it be Elvis or the Ohio Express.
Sorry Glee fans...
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budaniel
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 2:44pm | IP Logged
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the charts are a mess due to downloading IMO. Honestly, if people had to go to the store and buy SIX 45 rpm records to make the Glee songs all hit the chart in the same week, well, chances are they WOULDN'T. They would wait for the full soundtrack to come out. In fact, all six songs wouldn't even have been AVAILABLE on 45 RPM all in one week.
There is barely any official solicitation of designated singles anymore. Every track from an album--or not EVEN an album since songs are thrown up on itunes as soon as they've made some appearance on television--is fair game now to qualify as a single.
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torcan
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 4:01pm | IP Logged
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budaniel wrote:
the charts are a mess due to downloading IMO. Honestly, if people had to go to the store and buy SIX 45 rpm records to make the Glee songs all hit the chart in the same week, well, chances are they WOULDN'T. They would wait for the full soundtrack to come out. In fact, all six songs wouldn't even have been AVAILABLE on 45 RPM all in one week.
There is barely any official solicitation of designated singles anymore. Every track from an album--or not EVEN an album since songs are thrown up on itunes as soon as they've made some appearance on television--is fair game now to qualify as a single. |
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Agree totally - that's why today's charts are a "mess". Elvis achieved what he did by having 45s available and promoted to radio. Even if physical singles aren't available today, you could still make downloads count towards the Hot 100 and have it mean something. Billboard should have some rule where a song can't appear on the Hot 100 UNLESS it's a track being promoted as a "single" to radio. That way you'd say the charts return to the ways of yesteryear and you wouldn't see songs debut at No. 12 one week and fall off the next.
You simply can't compare the "Glee" cast's accomplishments to Elvis' - it's like apples and oranges.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 4:47pm | IP Logged
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Which brings us back to the question...what is a hit song today? This is especially true with the general lack of multi-format hits. I'm not even sure that requiring something being promoted to radio is necessarily a qualifier. With the advent of BDS/Mediabase monitoring, if you're not a monitored station you pretty much don't exist to the labels. Back when R&R still existed they had a secondary chart based on airplay at "indicator" stations (ie-non monitored) that while it didn't count toward their actual chart at least acknowledged the smaller stations that often broke the hits. Now that's gone. Does "promoted to radio" mean it was on a TM-C Hitdisc (presuming they haven't gone to an all-download system by now)?
I'm curious, how do those of you who are still active in programming CHR/Hot AC stations determine what songs you'll add, how heavy rotation they'll receive and what to keep as golds (assuming you don't do local music testing)?
This is not to put down downloads...it greatly evens the playing field...a song by a relatively unknown artist is likely to be just as available as one by a superstar...likewise someone in Podunk has the same access to music as someone in a large city.
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Paul C
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 5:31pm | IP Logged
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torcan wrote:
| Billboard should have some rule where a song can't appear on the Hot 100 UNLESS it's a track being promoted as a "single" to radio. |
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I still have a small supplement that came with an issue of Billboard around 1987 (it isn't dated) titled "How We Track The Hits". It explained in detail the methodology employed for the various charts. At the time there were 240 Top 40 stations that "reported" to Billboard. In order to chart on the Hot 100, a record had to have airplay reported on at least 10 of those stations (and also had to have a minimum number of airplay "points"). This is why songs during this era almost never debuted in the lowest few positions of the chart. It is also why a country or R&B song could sell hundreds of thousands of copies and not make the Hot 100.
This requirement was dropped when the Hot 100 started to be based on SoundScan and BDS data in 1991. When songs not commercially released as singles became eligible for the Hot 100 in 1998, a rule was introduced that required a song not commercially available as a single to be in the Top 75 in airplay before it could debut on the chart. A few years later this requirement was dropped (I'm not sure when; it may have been at the same time paid downloads started to be counted around 2004).
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Jody Thornton
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| Posted: 18 February 2011 at 10:54pm | IP Logged
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Hykker wrote:
| Which brings us back to the question...what is a hit song today? |
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To me, it would seem that YouTube video plays would be the way to judge a hit, at least partially. Most younger people I know (meaning up to 30), just go there and play the video to a new song, over and over and over ... lol.
I just don't think you can really go by radio any more. I don't see radio as a real hitmaker these days. I actually wonder if radio is relevant at all?
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Hykker
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| Posted: 19 February 2011 at 4:50pm | IP Logged
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While I think reports of radio's demise are greatly exaggerated, it's certainly not the cultural centerpiece it once was...definitely not a hitmaker anymore. Like print media, it just can't react quickly enough in this "always connected" age.
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bwolfe
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| Posted: 19 February 2011 at 7:39pm | IP Logged
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Radio's demise are greatly exaggerated, but with consolidation we began to see the lack of competition.
Since I'm in the business (smaller marker) its a follow the flock format. No one is taking the lead on anything. We deal with a consultant who has us check Mediabase to see how the spins are on gold titles. That makes radio the somewhat bland less than broad format that it once was. In fact my GM refers to us as a sales organization. Radio is here to make money first. There is so much debt from consolidation that its revenue first listeners second.
The record business turned its head from the electronic side of things thinking that young people would buy CD's forever. Their heads were firmly planted in the sand.
I remember opening the mail and seeing the new Madonna "Like A Prayer" and proclaming to listen at 3 for the local premiere of her new single.
That's way over!
I agree with Hykker radio isn't as connected as it was.
Don't get me started on voice tracking and unmanned airshifts.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 21 February 2011 at 2:03am | IP Logged
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Last week, I listened to an old AT40 show from 1980 where Casey Kasem said that the female artist with the most cover songs to chart was Linda Ronstadt and the male artist with the most cover songs to chart was Donny Osmond - they had 13 & 14, respectively (although Ronstadt would eventually have 14, too).
Who would have guessed that years later that the record would be shattered and that there would be an act to have over 150 cover songs chart - the cast of 'Glee'?!!?
If someone could have somehow said in 1980 that eventually there would be an act with 150 charted cover songs, I think everyone would have been dumbfounded.
The charts are so different now, I think it's a shame that so many old chart feats/records have been beat due to the way the charts are now allowed to be compiled. There ought to be 2 sets of chart feats! :)
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 08 March 2020 at 3:08pm | IP Logged
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Update:
What's even worse is that a lot of the Glee Cast songs in assembling the Hot 100 inside and outside the top 40 have disappeared never to be available again. At least Elvis and The Beatles songs are available to collect always. Most of the Glee releases were quick Itunes singles that often didnt make it to CD.
It's like comparing apples to oranges. Both are fruits but that doesn't mean the accomplishments are the same. What took a lifetime for Elvis to accomplish with ORIGINAL music is quite different then what Glee did with covers and very few ORIGINAL music compositions....
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Hykker
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| Posted: 09 March 2020 at 5:30am | IP Logged
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I just got my 1955-2018 Top Pop singles book a couple
weeks ago, and, Glee aside an surprised at the disconnect
between chart "success" and radio play. Lots of songs
that seemed to be big radio hits were, at best mid-
charters while tons of stuff (heavy on rap/R&B) I've
never heard of were top 10. Granted, I live in a very
small market in a very "white" state so radio here might
not be reflective of what's happening in larger markets
but still...
I'm not sure how Billboard's chart methodology can be
changed to "better reflect" what's happening these days
though. As I mentioned upthread, tastes and listening
habits are so fragmented these days that there really
aren't many true "hit" songs anymore.
I'm curious, what do board members here think should go
into the Hot 100, or is such a chart an anachronism in
today's world?
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AutumnAarilyn
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| Posted: 09 March 2020 at 10:33pm | IP Logged
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Half airplay by radio format and half physical and
digital sales.
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jebsib
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| Posted: 11 March 2020 at 1:18pm | IP Logged
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Given the current state of the music industry - which is vibrant - I think the Hot
100 is doing the best it can to reflect the diverse array of popular songs in the
States.
You can't deny the enormous influence of streaming and Hip-Hop that the
culture - and anyone under the age of 25 - is exposed to on a daily basis.
Unfortunately, this includes album bombs where dozens of new album tracks
materialize on the chart only to recede and disappear a week later.
But, radio is holding onto 'the hits' longer than ever before (8 - 15 MONTHS
sometimes), so the true hits these days are culturally indelible. When I grew
up, a hit song was played for 3 months, then rarely heard again till it was an
oldie! There is NO going back to how the charts looked in the 70s and 80s.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Glee vs. Elvis - most Hot 100 singles
