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abagon
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| Posted: 20 September 2011 at 8:59am | IP Logged
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The actual LP running time is (4:07), the listed time is "4:06" on the record label. (title "The Other Woman" Arista AL 9590)
The 45 (actual 4:02) is just an early fade of the LP. Although the actual time between the 45 and the LP is only :05 difference.
The LP has a cold ending with saxophone. But the 45 doesn't have it by fade out.
I feel that the below CD is "LP length."
(S) (4:06) Cornerstone Promotions/Sony Music Special Products 34208 Pump It Up (45 version)
Perhaps, Another CDs should have designation of "45 length" or "early fade of the LP or 45."
--abagon
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 20 September 2011 at 6:54pm | IP Logged
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I agree that the Cornerstone Promotions cd does include the LP version.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 20 September 2011 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
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Nice discovery, abagon. Unfortunately, this appears to be the only domestic CD release containing the full LP length of "The Other Woman"... and I'm finding it difficult so far to even locate a copy of Pump It Up anywhere online.
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abagon
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| Posted: 22 September 2011 at 10:33am | IP Logged
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Pat,
I think this song should have "length" designation. Because the 45 can be recreated from the LP by only a fade-out.
--abagon
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 22 September 2011 at 5:19pm | IP Logged
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Back to the question I seem to answer every day. The ending of the LP version has a cold ending featuring a saxophone solo while the 45 fades out before the saxophone. My definition of LP version is that yes you may be able to fade the LP to generate the 45 but there in reality is a difference between the 45 and LP so I call it an LP version not LP length.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 23 September 2011 at 9:14am | IP Logged
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Well, in that case, I suppose you should change a bunch of designations from "length" to version. For example, "Love Her Madly" by the Doors is listed as "length," but there are additional vocals, a drum fill and a piano solo on the fadeout that all happen after the 45 fades out.
How about Hall & Oates? Lots of their songs are lengths but could be considered "versions" by your definition. Look at "One On One," where on the LP there are vocal ad libs ("you and me...you and me...") and an instrumental passage that is not found on the 45, because the 45 had faded before this point.
Wouldn't it be easier and clearer to the readers if you simply made the rule that no matter what follows, if the 45 is identical to the LP from start to finish, except that it fades early, it should be a "length"?
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 09 September 2013 at 5:56pm | IP Logged
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I still haven't figured out why there's an early fade of the song out on CD, but I think it first showed up on Warner Special Products' 2-CD Night Beat (1988). It runs about 125.2 BPM throughout. All of these have a drop out in the right channel on the first guitar note. The same analog transfer is used for:- Warner Special Products' 2-CD After Hours (1990; digital clone)
- swaitek's promo 50-CD The A List Disc 12 (1994; no noise reduction)
- Warner Special Products' 2-CD Rockin' USA (1994)
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 5 1982 (1994; differently EQ'd digital clone)
- JCI's Only Dance 1980-1984 (1995)
- Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul '80s Rhythm And Grooves (2001; digitally exactly 0.1 dB quieter than Sounds Of The Eighties)
The full 45 length showed up on Arista's Greatest Hits (1993). It runs 125.7 BPM throughout. It sounds spectacular on this disc, using very low-generation source tapes and a very nice EQ. (I seem to remember that Ray Parker Jr. was his own engineer, too.) There are a few digital clones of Greatest Hits:- Rhino's Video Soul Disc 2 (1995; digitally exactly 0.239 dB quieter)
- Rhino's Billboard Hot R&B Hits 1982 (1996; differently EQ'd digital clone)
- Madacy's Rock On 1982 (1996; digitally identical)
- Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 25 Early '80s (1999; differently EQ'd digital clone)
Others:
The full 45 length is track 2 on Arista's 3-inch CD single. It also runs 125.7 BPM. Not quite as clean as Greatest Hits, but better than the early-fade versions.
The full 45 length is on EMI Australia's 5-CD Eighties Complete Vol. 2 (1999). It sounds really, really, really muffled here, as if all the life had been sucked out of it. And yet, there's hiss on the fade. Really awful.
For sound quality, I wholeheartedly recommend Ray Parker Jr.'s Greatest Hits (1993), which is a perfect representation of all his Arista work and sounds pretty stunning throughout.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 10 September 2013 at 5:18am
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Jody Thornton
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 8:07am | IP Logged
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Wow! After all these years, I had NEVER heard the cold ending. This video is a playback of the 12" single, but it has the full ending. Very cool!
Full Ending on This Video
Edited by Jody Thornton on 10 September 2013 at 8:09am
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abagon
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 9:27am | IP Logged
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Jody,
The ending with saxophone on the YouTube link is the same as the "The Other Woman" vinyl LP ending.
--abagon
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 11:16am | IP Logged
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Pat Downey wrote:
| Back to the question I seem to answer every day. The ending of the LP version has a cold ending featuring a saxophone solo while the 45 fades out before the saxophone. My definition of LP version is that yes you may be able to fade the LP to generate the 45 but there in reality is a difference between the 45 and LP so I call it an LP version not LP length. |
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Wow, Pat, in all these years I never knew this was one of the ways you deciphered between version and length! I have to agree with what Aaron said in the post following your post. In fact, I think most "lengths" could be changed to "versions" by this rule - because in most fadeouts there's usually SOMETHING unique in there - an instrument lick like an electric guitar part, an instrumental section that fades, a vocal ad lib, a drum riff, a keyboard part, etc. But of course, I don't think you should change all the "lengths" to "versions" because of this. That would take away an aspect of your database I've always found very useful. I've always, rather wrongly, assumed that if I could simply fade the LP early and get the 45, it would be designated in your database as "length", and if I couldn't, it wouldn't. Now I know that's not the case. There may be many examples where I can fade the LP to 45, but your database lists "version" because there's, say, a saxophone part, a guitar lick, maybe even a harmonica solo, after the 45 fade point would have ended - but it's still listed as "version". WOW - that is so confusing to me. If I see "version" listed in the database, I guess I'll always have to ask on this board if it can faded to the 45 length, because if so I don't want to buy a new CD when I already have a CD that I can simply fade to get the exact 45 (i.e. 45 length.)
But just so I understand your treatment, Pat, when does a recording that we readers may deem a "45 length" go back to being a "45 version" because of something that happens after the 45 faded? For instance, above you mentioned a sax solo. Does this mean if there's any new instrument added? What if it's an instrument that was already heard in a previous part of the record but it's a new solo? And what about vocal ad libs that weren't in the song before? I assume you'd still go with "length" on that one, but I'm not sure, so is that correct?
FYI, I'm not asking this in any snarky or sarcastic way. I sincerely want to have a better understanding of what circumstances a 45 can be generated from fading the LP early but not be listed as "length"? Because this info is new to me. (I never even read this particular Ray Parker Jr. thread before.) Thanks Pat.
It's your database, Pat, and you can make decisions how you see fit. We have to respect that. You've put an amazing amount of hard work into the database and I am eternally thankful for all that you (and people on this board) have contributed. But when it's a gray area issue like this, I guess we posters can put up extra info in the posts, so that there's a clearer picture of how a 45 can be created.
Actually, in the case of this particular song, is it a "45 length" (because it can be faded to the 45) and an "LP version" (because something unique happens after the 45 faded out)? Again, I'm really confused.
Edited by EdisonLite on 10 September 2013 at 11:38am
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Ray Parker Jr. - "The Other Woman"
