Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: (Sittin’ On) The Dock Of The Bay

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Topic: (Sittin’ On) The Dock Of The Bay - Otis R

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Ringmaster_D
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Posted: 06 October 2013 at 2:34pm \| IP Logged

Hello all.

I was reading a recent thread on the Steve Hoffman board
and they referenced that the mono mix of Dock Of The Bay
by Otis Redding on the Stax-Volt box was not the correct
single mix. Here's Steve Hoffman's quote:

The wrong mono mix is on the Stax box.

The right mono mix (I have the original VOLT 45 promo) is
not on any digital disc that I know of.

The stereo mix is mighty nice if you get a good CD that
has been mastered correctly. I prefer it to the mono
which is rare for me.

The thread later goes on to state that there may have
been multiple mono single mixes. I don't have the
original 45, but I thought someone might have more info
to get to the bottom of this.

jimct
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Posted: 07 October 2013 at 4:28pm \| IP Logged

Dave, my 1968 Volt 157 promo 45 has a listed time of (2:38), an actual
time of (2:36), and deadwax info of "VLT-13684-1 1".

I also own two Volt 157 stock copies. One has the black and red label
design (which is the same label design as found on my promo, but the
label colors on my promo are, not surprisingly, black and white instead.)
Listed time (2:38), actual time (2:41), with deadwax info of "VLT-13684-
6". My second stock copy has a multi-colored "Volt Records" (alternating
green, orange and red with each letter) a red lightning bolt, with an
orange, black and brown label, which I believe Volt was transitioning over
to, by late spring of '68. This copy has a listed time of (2:38), an actual
time of (2:42), with deadwax info of "VLT-13684-7".

Based on both your post and my own findings here, Dave, I believe further
examination is necessary. Therefore, I will forward the above 45 versions
to Aaron, for further analysis, as his busy schedule permits.

Edited by jimct on 09 October 2013 at 8:15pm

Yah Shure
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Posted: 07 October 2013 at 8:57pm \| IP Logged

Listed (2:38) actual (2:40) on my stock copy (a Plastic Products pressing; deadwax is "VLT-13684-15".)

In comparing the two CDs I have that contain this recording in mono with my Volt 157 45, I find that there are, indeed, two different mono mixes:

1) Otis' vocal is way up front, and everything else - bass, horns, percussion, etc. - is decidedly in the background. This is the mix on my Volt 157 stock 45, and it sounds very similar to the track on the Atlantic Rhythm And Blues 1947-1974 Volume 6 CD (Atlantic 81298).

2) Otis' vocal is moved quite noticeably back in the mix, with the bass, horns, etc. moved more forward than on mix #1. This mix actually packs more punch than #1, but Otis sounds like he's stepped back from the mic a couple of feet and gets a little lost in the crowd (the guitar and horns overpower him at times.) The CD I have this mix on is disc two of the 1992 Rhino promo sampler PRO2 90129 The Rhino . Atlantic . Remasters Collection, which sports the "Rhino Atlantic & Atco REmasters" logo on the back. The very beginning of the intro is clipped off on this disc.

When I fold the stereo track from the Time Life Super Hits 1968 CD to mono, it doesn't sound like either of the two mono mixes above. Otis' vocal is more upfront (like on mix #1) but the drums, in particular, are far more in the background than on mix #1.

eriejwg
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Posted: 08 October 2013 at 10:07am \| IP Logged

Did some searching around on Rhapsody. I found, what sounds
like the 45 mix John describes above, on a collection
called "Platoon And Songs Of The Era." I have sent a file
to John (Yah Shure) for analysis.

Yah Shure
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Posted: 08 October 2013 at 11:54am \| IP Logged

John, your file from Platoon And Other Songs Of The Era does match the mix on my Volt 45 and the Atlantic Rhythm And Blues 1947-1974 Volume 6 CD; however - unlike the Atlantic disc - it sounds like the mono tape was transferred with a stereo playback head.

Mix differences aside (and that's what I was concentrating on during last night's comparisons) there is a surprising difference in sound quality between these two digital sources and my vinyl Volt 45: the 45 sounds very crisp and clear, with plenty of detail, while the two digital sources are duller than last month's dishwater.

UPDATE: I also compared the Volt 45 with a mid-'70s gold-label Specialty-pressed Atlantic Oldies Series reissue 45 (deadwax "VLT 13684-10", actual time just shy of 2:41) and I'd still give the edge to the Volt 45 (which, I should note, does have a pretty fair amount of hum during the fade.) The two are sourced from the same mono mix, and while the Volt still sounds better, the differences are not as pronounced as they were with the two digital sources. There's also a minor speed difference and the reissue 45's fade kicks in just a hair earlier than it does on the Volt single.

Edited by Yah Shure on 08 October 2013 at 12:41pm

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 08 October 2013 at 8:22pm \| IP Logged

Stereo version

I think the first version to appear on CD was the stereo version on Warner Special Products' Ultimate (1986). There are a bunch of CDs that appear to use the same analog transfer as Ultimate, but all have a slightly longer fade:

Atlantic's Golden Age Of Black Music 1960-1970 (1988; nice and hissy)
Atlantic's Atlantic Rhythm And Blues 1947-74 Disc 7 (1991 release - not the same set that Yah mentioned above; differently EQ'd digital clone of Golden Age Of Black Music 1960-1970; hiss drastically reduced, which is not really a good thing)
Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 3 1968 (1991)
Time-Life's 2-CD Singers And Songwriters Vol. 6 The 1960s (2000; differently EQ'd digital clone of Solid Gold Soul)

Stereo version with left/right channels reversed

There was one Time-Life disc that was based on the same analog transfer as all of the above, but had its left/right channels reversed - Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 2 1968 (1990). There are a few discs that use the same analog transfer as Superhits, and all have their left/right channels reversed:

Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 4 1968 (1990; digitally identical to Superhits)
JCI's Only Rock 'N Roll 1965-1969 (1994; fades about a second earlier than others)
Time-Life's Singers And Songwriters Vol. 31 Classics (2001; digitally exactly 0.532 dB louder than Superhits)

Two stereo outliers, both with the correct left/right channels and neither one based on Ultimate:

Warner Special Products' Freedom Rock Disc 2 (1987; fade truncated - avoid)
Simitar's Number Ones Hot In The '60s (1998; sounds surprisingly nice on this disc)

Now, the mono mixes. (The first mono version to appear on CD was probably the original '80s-era release of the Atlantic R&B 1947-1974 set, which is not the one I have; I have the 1991 rerelease.)

Mono mix with the vocals way out in front

This turned up on Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 4 1968 (1987), but is from a really high-generation tape source and sounds really dreadful.

Infinitely better is the version on Rhino's Millennium New Soul Party (2000), which sounds truly stellar in comparison. I'm really surprised that this disc isn't a digital clone of the Stax/Volt box or Very Best Of, but there it is. Probably the only place on CD to find the vocals-out-in-front mix from really good source tapes.

Mono mix with the vocals mixed pretty low compared to the instrumentation

The first appearance on CD is on the 9-CD Complete Stax/Volt Vol. 1 Disc 9 (1991). There are some CDs that all use the same analog transfer as the Stax/Volt box:

Rhino's Very Best Of (1992; digitally identical)
Rhino's cheapie Soul Hits Vol. 2 (1993; digitally exactly 0.238 dB quieter)
Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1968 (1993; digitally identical)
Time-Life's Legends Of Soul Vol. 3 Otis Redding (2001)

I tried mono-ing out the stereo version, and it's closer to the vocals-far-out-in-front than the vocals-to-the-back.

For sound quality, go with the Rhino discs for the mono mixes. The stereo mixes aren't all that great on any of the CDs I listed above. I think the best of the bunch is probably Atlantic's Golden Age Of Black Music 1960-1970 (1988), which has a lot of hiss and the longest fade of the bunch. The hiss is probably indicative of a high-generation tape source, but I don't know of any discs that use a lower-generation tape source. (Are there any mid-'90s-era Rhino discs that feature the stereo version?)

Edited by crapfromthepast on 09 October 2013 at 2:36pm

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 08 October 2013 at 8:34pm \| IP Logged

Upon further listening, I think the vocals-way-out-in-front mono mix may be a fold-down of the stereo mix.

I'll be happy to send out test files to those interested in comparing...

Edited by crapfromthepast on 09 October 2013 at 7:30am

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MMathews
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Posted: 09 October 2013 at 5:44pm \| IP Logged

Ron,
That's what i was getting too, I can't really tell a
difference between the stereo-fold-down and the "vocals up
front" mono mix.
I'd be interested to hear the "vocals buried" mix.
MM

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 10 October 2013 at 5:45am \| IP Logged

Thanks to John and Brian for sending me files, I can confirm:

The true 45 mix is the mono mix with the vocals way out in front. It's on:

Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 4 1968 (1987 - sounds awful; avoid)
Atlantic Rhythm And Blues 1947-1974 Volume 6 (Atlantic 81298 - original release of this set, not the 1991 rerelease; sounds quite nice)
Rhino's Millennium New Soul Party (2000; sounds superb)

John convinced me that if you fold down the stereo mix, the drums are much softer than on the mono vocals-out-in-front mix. So this isn't a fold-down.

Now to figure out where the vocals-to-the-back mix came from. It originally appeared on the Stax/Volt box in 1991, so Bill Inglot must have unearthed a tape of this mix buried in a vault somewhere. I suspect that this may be as much as we'll ever know...

Edited by crapfromthepast on 10 October 2013 at 7:01am

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aaronk
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Posted: 10 October 2013 at 6:43am \| IP Logged

The mono mix on Rhino's 2-CD Definitive Soul Collection is also very nice sounding and is the correct mono mix.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 10 October 2013 at 2:14pm \| IP Logged

I knew I remembered something about how Steve Cropper did the mix for "Dock Of The Bay", and I found the article. From the Wall Street Journal, January 3, 2013, an excerpt directly from Steve Cropper:

Quote:

Back at Stax on Monday, Atlantic Records' producer Jerry Wexler called. Atlantic handled Stax's distribution. Jerry said we had to get an Otis single out right away. I said, "Jerry, we just lost Otis. We don't have anything mixed yet, and I can't even think about it." Jerry insisted.

So early on Tuesday morning I began mixing "Dock of the Bay" alone. I wanted to enhance the bay image, sort of like a secret message to Otis. I called a local friend for sound effects of the sea and gulls and added them lightly in places.

When I finished the mix the next morning, I took the master tape to the Memphis airport and handed the box to an attendant flying up to New York. She was met in New York by an Atlantic rep, and the label made a test pressing for Jerry.

But Jerry had a problem with it. He wanted Otis's vocal to be louder and wanted me to remix the tape. I felt it was perfect and didn't want to touch it. Then I had an idea. The tape Jerry had was a stereo mixwith the bass and guitar coming out of the left speaker and the drums and vocal track on the right.

By turning the stereo mix into a mono mixhaving the same audio information come out of both speakersthe vocal would come up two decibels. So that's what I did, but I never thought I'd fool Jerry. He loved what I sent, and that's what you hear on the single.

Years later, I was in Sausalito on tour and found myself at a place by the bay having a hamburger. I was watching the water when my eye caught something. The ferries crossing from San Francisco turned a little as they came in, creating a rolling wave to cushion their arrival at the pier. That's when it hit me. Otis had been watching the ferries roll in.

The full article, which is a very nice read, is here.

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The Hits Man
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Posted: 10 October 2013 at 5:27pm \| IP Logged

I have a stereo mix on the Atlantic Records 50th
Anniversary 2-disc CD from 1998. I do not have the Cat #.
The disc is HDCD encoded. I think this should make a nice
foldover, which I just did.

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Yah Shure
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Posted: 10 October 2013 at 9:14pm \| IP Logged

crapfromthepast wrote:

John convinced me that if you fold down the stereo mix, the drums are much softer than on the mono vocals-out-in-front mix. So this isn't a fold-down.

Ron, is it too late to un-convince you? :) Mark was able to convince me that it was the track on the T-L Superhits 1968 CD that has some wonky phase issues. I was able to confirm that by summing the stereo track from a 1973 Atlantic Records 2-LP 25th Anniversary set, which relocated the drums from Siberia to somewhere across the bay.

And thanks for providing the link to that story!

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 11 October 2013 at 5:03am \| IP Logged

I think if I did the fold-down in an unbalanced way, using
a little more than 50% of the channel with the drums and a
little less than 50% of the other channel, I could probably
adjust the level of the drums pretty easily.

So to summarize: there's the stereo mix, the true 45 mix
that's a fold-down of the stereo mix, and that other mix
that has the vocals too far back.

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The Hits Man
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Posted: 11 October 2013 at 7:36pm \| IP Logged

crapfromthepast wrote:

So to summarize: there's the stereo mix, the true 45 mix
that's a fold-down of the stereo mix, and that other mix
that has the vocals too far back.

I know it's
subjective, but That last one you mentioned was te
original mono mix. I don't think the vocals are too far
back. If anything, I think the stereo/foldover mix has
the vocal too loud. I wish Jerry Wexler had liked it.

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Posted: 25 August 2015 at 6:26pm \| IP Logged

I'm pretty sure this was all sorted out, but I wanted to comment about the mixes on Jim's 45s. His promo and both of his stock copies all have the same mix--the mono mix with the vocals in front, which apparently is a fold-down of the stereo mix.

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