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JL328
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| Posted: 08 May 2018 at 11:59am | IP Logged
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13 Top 40 hits this week. 11 debuts.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 08 May 2018 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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That's insane.
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 08 May 2018 at 2:38pm | IP Logged
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Many acts barely managed 13 Top 40 hits over an entire career...
The definition of a "Top 40 Hit Single" has deviated so far from the original meaning that it's impossible to compare modern chart accomplishments to those of the past.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 08 May 2018 at 3:01pm | IP Logged
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Mediabase only lists one Post Malone single getting spins
right now... "Psycho."
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Chartman
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| Posted: 08 May 2018 at 8:24pm | IP Logged
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JL328 wrote:
| 13 Top 40 hits this week. 11 debuts. |
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This is the new norm when average hip-hop artists release an album
and almost all the songs chart due to streaming. J. Cole almost did it
last week and there have been many others during the past 3-4
months. With the exception of Drake, none of these artists would really
be considered superstars. I wish Billboard would run some columns
describing the artists who had the greatest number of chart “hits” that
fell off the chart in a week. Check out what happens to these Top 40
songs next week.
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Chartman
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| Posted: 08 May 2018 at 8:33pm | IP Logged
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Underground Dub wrote:
Many acts barely managed 13 Top 40 hits
over an entire career...
The definition of a "Top 40 Hit Single" has deviated so far from the
original meaning that it's impossible to compare modern chart
accomplishments to those of the past. |
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The modern charts have little resemblance to pre 1992 charts which
make chart achievement comparisons between these two eras totally
inappropriate, yet Billboard keeps doing it in their Chart Beat column.
One could argue that charts from 2018 and those from 2010 are totally
different animals.
Edited by Chartman on 08 May 2018 at 8:55pm
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JL328
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| Posted: 09 May 2018 at 12:57am | IP Logged
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I realize that maybe I don't fully understand what counts as a stream.
When you see reports that Post Malone's album was streamed 236
million times in the US alone in its first week, the math starts to fall
apart really quickly. Given that national population is a fixed number,
and we can be pretty sure that small children and the elderly weren't
desperately counting down for the album drop, I find these numbers a
little unreachable and would love some kind of explanation.
What does the chart even measure nowadays? I always thought it was
meant to rank songs by the most number of people in the US impacted
by a song in a particular week. So, if 100 million different people
legitimately sought out and listened to a song by Post Malone (whether
they liked it or hated it) then I think that's legitimate and I wouldn't have
a problem with it. But that's clearly not what's happening. There aren't
236 million different Americans doing anything in common, let alone
jamming to Cardi B or J Cole, artists that a lot of people don't even
know. So is this just a small group of people streaming each new
album on repeat hundreds of times? Just setting their account on
repeat and walking away? If so, you don't have 100 million people
impacted by a song, you have maybe 100,000 people impacted by it
1,000 times each (if they're even actually listening).
I don't understand why billboard wants this. Although I guess they'd
argue the hot 100 still measures the popularity of songs in a given
week (albeit with a flawed formula) it no longer serves at all to measure
a particular song's popularity progression and the ability to use the
chart as a source of historical comparison is lost forever. That just
doesn't seem like a good thing to me.
If Billboard wants a true measure-- and I understand that it obviously
doesn't-- it should limit the impact that each individual streaming
account has on the charts. For instance, if the same account streams
an album 1000 times in a week, should the last 995 times even be
counted? I'll give you 5, because maybe somebody is playing it for
others, but after that you can assume the streams are not impacting a
new listener. Whereas sales are an easy way to track different buyers
and radio play goes by an audience impressions formula based on the
station's range and the surrounding population, streams aren't limited to
ensure you're counting distinct listeners instead of the same people
over and over and over again.
Maybe I'm wrong and there really are 236 million people in the US
alone that are really into post malone. I understand that I'm no longer
squarely within the age demographic most targeted by music labels
(but I'm not that far removed from it), but I don't know a single person
who is talking about the post malone album.
By the way, if you think this cardi b and post malone stuff is bad, keep
in mind that Drake's new album comes out next month. If he were
smart, he'd include a bunch of old style interludes to get the album up
to 40 tracks so he can get the whole chart... then maybe Billboard
would fix it (actually they'd probably just celebrate it).
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 09 May 2018 at 3:52am | IP Logged
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Joel and I have been having this discussion a lot recently. Just what kind of "hits" are these really? Perhaps it's time for Billboard to re-evaluate their chart formulas. Not only is Drake coming up, but Kanye West also has a new album being released soon. At least the Glee Cast is no longer recording!
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Chartman
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| Posted: 09 May 2018 at 8:46am | IP Logged
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Even Billboard recognizes that streaming is an issue
as they are once again changing the formulas!
https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8006673/bi
llboard-charts-adjust-streaming-weighting-2018
Others have issues with the Hot 100:
How streaming undermines the Hot 100:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/garysuarez/2016/12/20/str
eaming-billboard-hot-100/#7416fa66aa7b
https://popgoesthecharts.wordpress.com/2013/02/21/bill
board-please-stop-changing-your-chart-methodology-
every-week-love-adam/
https://noisey.vice.com/en_au/article/gyd537/the-
charts-made-no-goddamn-sense-in-2017
Here's how Post Malone games the system a few years
ago:
https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/billboa
rd-hot-100-chart-youtube-streaming
I could go on, but you get the idea.
Edited by Chartman on 09 May 2018 at 8:47am
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Chartman
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The C&W charts problem (i.e. Hot Country Chart vs.
Country Airplay) revisited.
Seems this is also an issue with the R&B chart.
Lengthy diatribe about it here:
https://pitchfork.com/features/article/9378-i-know-
you-got-soul-the-trouble-with-billboards-rbhip-hop-
chart/
Some great quotes from this article:
"Billboard’s overhauled genre lists are essentially
what I call “accordion charts”: condensed versions of
the Hot 100, with all the songs that Billboard has
decided don’t qualify for that genre taken out.
You could actually make any week’s R&B/Hip-Hop chart
yourself: Take that week’s Hot 100; cross out the
pure-pop, country, and rock songs; and re-stack all
the songs that are left, keeping them in the same
order. Voilà: instant R&B chart.(To satisfy my
curiosity for this story, I played the create-the-R&B-
chart game with four different Hot 100s from various
weeks throughout 2013. The only differences between my
handmade R&B charts and Billboard’s official ones were
the inclusion of older songs on lower rungs of the R&B
chart that Billboard removes from the Hot 100 due to
its recurrent rules that prune old songs. If these
records had been left on the Hot 100, my faux R&B
charts and Billboard’s would have been identical.)"
"Indeed, fans of the pre-2012 system can check out the
R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart, which is virtually
identical to the old methodology. As Pietroluongo
implies, when the physical singles market died in the
2000s, the big R&B/Hip-Hop chart was essentially all-
airplay, anyway."
I was actually thinking that the "Top Pop Singles"
book should be retitled the "The Hot 100 Singles" -
does anyone think that the Hot 100 qualifies primarily
as a Pop chart anymore?
Edited by Chartman on 09 May 2018 at 10:40am
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eriejwg
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I thought Billboard had a streaming chart. Looking at
Nielsen and Mediabase, all this Post Malone isn't
seeimng airplay. Again, the only one listed is "Psycho."
Well, I just pulled up Billboard Hip Hop Airplay and
here's what's listed:
POST MALONE
Chart History
R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay
RANKED BY PERFORMANCE ON CHART
Rockstar
Post Malone Featuring 21 Savage
Peaked at #1 on 12.9.2017
White Iverson
Post Malone
Peaked at #8 on 11.28.2015
Psycho
Post Malone Featuring Ty Dolla $ign
Peaked at #19 on 5.5.2018
Congratulations
Post Malone Featuring Quavo
Peaked at #23 on 8.26.2017
All of these other songs aren't listed until you pull up
on demand streaming. Apparently, that now weighs into
the Hot 100 too?
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 09 May 2018 at 11:08am | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
| All of these other songs aren't listed until you pull up on demand streaming. Apparently, that now weighs into the Hot 100 too? |
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Yes. Streaming data has been used for the Hot 100 since August 2007. YouTube views (from U.S. viewers only) have been used since February 2013.
Not sure what the answer is for all of this. The Hot 100 is supposed to be a snapshot of the 100 most popular songs for any given week. The problem is, they have rules. For instance, any song over 20 weeks charted and dropping below #50 is removed. And, of course, a song used to have to be released as a commercial single in order to chart. It's a whole different world these days, for sure.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 09 May 2018 at 11:12am | IP Logged
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Now it's being reported that Tidal seriously inflated some streaming numbers: https://www.spin.com/2018/05/tidal-fake-streams-kanye-beyonc e-investigation-300-million/
Maybe this will help lead to some type of chart reform?!?
Edited by Paul Haney on 09 May 2018 at 11:13am
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Brian W.
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Paul Haney wrote:
Now it's being reported that Tidal
seriously inflated some streaming numbers:
https://www.spin.com/2018/05/tidal-fake-streams-kanye-
beyonc e-investigation-300-million/
Maybe this will help lead to some type of chart reform?!?
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That's why BuzzAngle doesn't incorporate Tidal data into
its charts, because Tidal will not allow Nielsen-type
monitoring... they just submit a report on their
streaming and sales numbers. (Though BuzzAngle has some
serious problems of its own the past few months --
popular songs like Cardi B's "Be Careful" simply missing
from the chart, etc.)
And the one-week-on-the-charts thing, yeah, true, but
that could also be said of "The Voice" or "American Idol"
so-called hits, or some of these charity singles that
Lin-Manuel Miranda likes to put out. (Which often are #1
on sales for one week and then simply drop off the chart
completely.) Sometimes I think "Billboard" should adopt
a policy that the first week of a song's release only
counts at 50% or something.
But this all brings up a question I have been wondering
lately -- why is streaming so dominated by hip-hop,
whereas digital sales has more of a pop/hip-hop/country
balance?
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torcan
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| Posted: 09 May 2018 at 4:00pm | IP Logged
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For a long time I've thought that songs shouldn't be
allowed to enter the Hot 100 unless they're actively
being promoted by the labels to radio as singles.
I find it bogus when these acts have so many debuts in
a given week when most are just "album cuts", then
drop off quickly. Those shouldn't be on the Hot 100
in the first place. I've never even heard most of
these songs, and all those debuts skew chart numbers
for other legitimate hits.
I kind of echo most of what JL328 said several posts
above.
I stopped buying Billboard in early 2004 but still
follow the charts online. The charts certainly aren't
what they were :(
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Steve Carras
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| Posted: 09 May 2018 at 4:54pm | IP Logged
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Post Malone...? Hardly heard of them.....yet look at what my signature is and you will see I do buy some modern artists (Taylor Swift being another)
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 09 May 2018 at 5:00pm | IP Logged
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Steve Carras wrote:
Post Malone...? Hardly heard of
them..... |
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I guess not, 'cause it's a "him," not a "them," LOL.
He's a white rapper from Texas.
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Steve Carras
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Looked the name up, this is thew guy who does Rockstar, the single with the longest run, since at least January, the only #1 this year.
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Steve Carras
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JL328 wrote:
I realize that maybe I don't fully understand what counts as a stream.
When you see reports that Post Malone's album was streamed 236
million times in the US alone in its first week, |
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Alone,that is..:)
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JL328
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| Posted: 09 May 2018 at 6:07pm | IP Logged
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Truth be told, the glee cast and American idol songs didn't bother me
much because those songs were at least based on measurable sales.
Those songs actually were impacting millions of listeners because
people were watching the shows and talking about the songs and
debating the artists. People were consuming those songs and they are
mostly remembered. On the other hand, this streaming phenomenon
seems to be based on a few people taking advantage of a really flawed
formula.
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Topic: I guess people really like Post Malone
