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davidclark
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| Posted: 02 May 2006 at 5:49pm | IP Logged
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...continuing with my Neil Diamond analysis. I just listened to the 45 of Holly Holy and I believe the 45 is not an early fade of the LP. At 4:14 of the LP version (at least the version I have on "His 12 Greatest Hits", he sings the line "Holly Holy Rain". At 4:09 of the 45, he skips this 9 second line and sings (rather screams) "Holly Holy Love", which comes after he sings "...Rain" on the LP.
So, unless my "His 12 Greatest Hits" is not the LP version, the 45 is a "45 version" and the LP "LP version". The "In My Lifetime" version is faster than my "His 12 Greatest Hits" version but slower than my 45. Perhaps this was a crude attempt to get the 45? Man, all they need to do is listen to one!
Unfortunately I don't have any other ND CDs to compare...
Edited by davidclark on 02 May 2006 at 6:23pm
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MMathews
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Hi David!
Just a reminder - the version on the MCA "12 Greatest Hits" Cd is remixed. I don't recall where the subtle differences were, but if you compare the vinyl "hits" or the vinyl LP version with the remix you'll hear a vocal difference. I recall there's one line he sings in the LP version where the remix turns his vocal track down in the spot...
-MM
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davidclark
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Hi Markie! yeah, i know this version is a remix. But is it a remix of the LP version? I will need to pull an LP I guess to verify.
Done. I have reason to believe the remix could be a different vocal take. Perhaps not all of it, but I found at least two times where the vocal is different: when he sings "and I fly" at 2:08 and 3:38. Also as Markie states, the remix removes his vocal from 3:42 to 3:45 (timings from the remix).
It wouldn't surprise me at all, as although I like what Steve Hoffman did for MCA in the early days of the CD, he did use many wrong takes, versions, etc.
Anyone care to chime in on this thread? Don't forget about the 45 being an edit, not an early fade!
Edited by davidclark on 04 May 2006 at 2:09pm
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Pat Downey
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I finally had the time to pull out the vinyl LP "Touching You Touching Me" and the cd of the same name and they are identical. As David has pointed out above, there really is an edit of the LP version to get the 45 version and unfortunately that 45 edit has yet to appear on cd in the US.
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eriejwg
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Reviving this thread, David was kind enough to send me his 45 dub. I compared it to my 20th Century Masters: Millennium Collection CD. The speed seems to be the same up to a point...still investigating.
Edited by eriejwg on 22 February 2008 at 9:13pm
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eriejwg
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See above...
Edited by eriejwg on 22 February 2008 at 9:13pm
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eriejwg
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Well, I came up with a stereo edit matching the 45. Don't ask me how, LOL. Besides the edit, I pitched up the LP in a couple places...
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jimct
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My commercial 45, which is mono, and confirmed as UNI 55175, has a listed time of (4:27), but an actual time of (4:30).
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davidclark
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bumping up this thread, as the database does not yet reflect the versions
that are the original LP version vs. the "remix with vocal differences" (as
found on His 12 Greatest Hits).
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Hykker
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I have a TM-Century GoldDisc with this on it in which the song has been pitched waaaaay down. Not sure where this came from...I have the original album and it's not this draggy there. Maybe a mastering error on TM's part?
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KentT
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45 is a dedicated mono mix, nowhere on CD. 4:00 and a slightly different take. CD of 12 Greatest Hits originally was different from the LP of same which substituted studio recordings for the LP issue's live concert performances of some tracks (Direct Disk Labs first issued that tracklisting of the album as an Audiophile LP)
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edtop40
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my commercial 45 lists the run time on the label as 4:27
and does indeed run that length and and NOT 4:30 as listed
in the db......the run out groove info is 'delta, 78392-X'
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jimct
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Ed, since I am the one that provided the actual (4:30) timing earlier in this
thread, I just re-pulled my stock 45. Turns out I own two copies. One is
on vinyl (which about 98% of all my UNI 45s were), and my other copy is
on styrene. Both are confirmed as UNI 55175. I've always considered my
vinyl 45 as my "primary" copy, however. After re-checking it, my original
(4:27 listed; 4:30 actual) timing details for it are correct. Deadwax is
simply "356 T15". My styrene stock copy has deadwax of "356 T11",
followed by "delta 78392, scratchout, X". This copy does have both a
listed and actual time of (4:27), matching Ed's, and is clearly sped up,
compared to my vinyl stock copy.
In cases like this, to "break the time tie", I then go to my promo copy.
Luckily, I do own one for "Holly Holy". However, my promo 45 copy is also
styrene - again, very unusual for UNI 45s in my collection. Both sides of it
do have both a listed and actual time of (4:27), however, and are also
sped up. Deadwaxes are different for each side. One promo side is "356-
T17" followed by "delta 78392-X", while the other promo side is "356-
T12" followed by "delta 78392-X. My four total 45 pressings each came
from a different stamper.
As always, Pat, it is up to you how you choose to reflect this info in your
db. However, I must comment that this is one of the very few times where
my ears much prefer the slower, actual (4:30) 45 length. That said, most
overall pressings do appear to run (4:27).
Nice catch, Ed!
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MMathews
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As mentioned by Kent earlier, the 45 is a dedicated mono
mix and cannot be created from the LP version. As Jim
reported, some 45's ran (4:27) and some (4:30) and only
difference was the speed.
Aside form the Edit, there is an overdub in the mono that
is missing from the LP.
Then there is the remix on the first edition of the "12
Greatest Hits" CD. This remix is an alternate vocal take
starting at (1:36) and lasting all the way to (3:43),
when the correct vocal track is potted up just before the
last chorus. Ironically, the remix DOES contain the edit
near the end that the 45 mix does.
The stereo LP version is closest to the hit but note, the
LP version starts to fade before the 2nd point of the
edit, so to make the edit properly you'll need to
increase the levels there about 2.5db.
RE: The MONO mix...there are various differences
throughout but most notably the "tapping" rhythm effect
is louder on the 45. In the first chorus, a kick drum
appears that is absent from the LP version. Then at the
start of the final chorus, the kick drum comes back
louder, in fact it's the loudest thing in the mix at that
point - you can even see the higher peaks in the
waveform. Funny, it's not a clear drum, has sort of a
"thud" sound but this drum makes the choruses punchier. I
especially noticed that when playing it in the car.
MM
Edited by MMathews on 09 October 2016 at 7:28pm
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davidclark
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MM,
On my copy of "12 Greatest Hits", the edit is not present - the alternate version
matches the LP (in terms of length). I bought it in 1987, pressed in Japan.
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MMathews
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OH ... thanks for pointing that out David. My mistake was
I was comparing a copy of the "12 Greatest Hits" remix
that was sent to me rather than ripping my own CD. The
copy I got was edited to match the ending of the single.
No matter though since that remix version has little in
common with the hit version (avoid!) :-)
MM
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Neil Diamond - 1969 - HOLLY HOLY
