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aaronk
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| Posted: 08 May 2006 at 8:10am | IP Logged
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I was reviewing the database notes for Thompson Twins' "Lay Your Hands On Me" and Pat has done a nice job of summing up the different versions. I wanted to add that the version on Platinum & Gold listed as "neither the 45 or LP version" has "UK Single Version" listed in the liner notes.
Also, I no longer own the 12" single; however, if my memory serves me correctly, the version appearing on Greatest Mixes, which is currently noted as "Best Of/Greatest Mixes LP Version," is identical to the original 12" mix. Can anyone who has the 12" verify?
Changing those comments might add further clarity to the database, as in many other instances, Pat notes 12" single version where applicable.
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80smusicfreak
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Much like Arista labelmate Jermaine Jackson's 1984-85 hit, "Do What You Do", the Thompson Twins' 1985 top ten single, "Lay Your Hands on Me", is still somewhat of a mess in the on-line database. I have some new discoveries and info to add to the mix, so like I did last Fall w/ "Do What You Do", let's begin to unravel the mystery by reviewing all of the previously-known versions shown in Pat's db on vinyl and/or CD - w/ 19 U.S. CD appearances to date - in order of ACTUAL length:
1. (3:49) = dj-only 45 version, found on the "(Cold Ending)" side of the common/standard dj 45 (on one U.S. CD - see db)
2. (3:54) = U.S. commercial 45 version, matching the "(FADE)" side of the common/standard dj 45 (on NO U.S. CDs - see db)
3. (4:03)-(4:08) = unknown origin, shown as "(neither the 45 nor LP version)" by Pat (on eight U.S. CDs - see db)
4. (4:20)-(4:21) = LP version from Here's to Future Days (on five U.S. CDs - see db)
5. (4:59)-(5:11) = remix, shown as "("Best Of/Greatest Mixes" LP version)" by Pat (on five U.S. CDs - see db)
Now let's look at the song's (rather long) release history, in chronological order - including my new discoveries, as well as some changes/modifications that I feel should be made to some of the descriptors in the db, for the sake of clarification:
1) "Lay Your Hands on Me" was first released as a single in the group's native U.K., all the way back in November of '84. That version was produced by Alex Sadkin (along w/ Tom Bailey), and peaked at #13 there in January of '85. Originally, the trio's Here's to Future Days album was supposed to follow in the U.K. around January of '85 as well, w/ a U.S. release about a month or two later. However, it seems that Tom Bailey fell ill around that time ("nervous exhaustion"), and therefore, further releases/promotion from Arista worldwide were put on hold (as well as any touring by the group)...
2) So fast-forward about five months later. Believe it or not, the song's U.S. debut came when it was featured on the O.S.T. to Perfect, released on Arista 8278 in June of '85. (Oh, and who recorded the title track from the film, which was released as the first single??? Why, Jermaine Jackson, of course!) The (4:08) version of "Lay Your Hands on Me" that appeared on the soundtrack was the original U.K. 45 version from the previous Fall/Winter, produced by Alex Sadkin. (And as aaronk pointed out in his post above, this is also supported by the liner notes found in 2003's Platinum & Gold Collection, which used the same version that first appeared on Perfect.) Considering this was still the very early days of CD and the album wasn't a huge seller, somewhat surprisingly, Arista DID actually release the soundtrack in digital form at the time here in the U.S. - and yes, Pat has it listed in the db. (And because the Perfect soundtrack has never been re-issued since, it's quite rare on CD! And again, because it was 1985, all copies of the CD I've seen to date were Japan-for-U.S. pressings. Have the soundtrack on both cassette & CD myself...)
Now, because the Perfect soundtrack ultimately preceded the Thompson Twins' still-being-reworked next album, Here's to Future Days, by nearly FOUR MONTHS - not to mention the U.S. release of the "Lay Your Hands on Me" single by about two months - I feel it could be argued that it qualifies as the song's parent album just as much as Here's to Future Days. As aaronk mentioned, Pat currently has this version of the song listed in the db as "(neither the 45 nor LP version)". I agree 100% w/ aaronk's initial suggestion above that the descriptor for the eight "neither" CDs should be made more specific. However, I think it would be best to change it to "("O.S.T. Perfect" LP version)" instead, while perhaps adding "U.K. 45 version" next to that as a secondary reference... :-)
Of course, at this time, I'm assuming that the eight CDs currently shown in the db as being "neither" are all identical, even though they have an actual time range of (4:03)-(4:08). Would that be correct, Pat, or is there actually more than one "neither" version on CD out there???
3) The commercial 45 on Arista 9396 then finally got released here in the U.S. in July of '85 (or more likely August, considering it debuted on the pop chart in both Billboard and Cash Box in their September 21 issues - but both Wikipedia and 45cat say "July"). It was a new/reworked version of the song co-produced by Nile Rodgers, and AFAIK, there is only one version/pressing of the U.S. commercial 45. It was accompanied by the common/standard dj 45, also on Arista AS1-9396, which featured a "(FADE)" version of "Lay Your Hands on Me" on one side (matching the commercial 45), and a "(Cold Ending)" version on the other (unique to that promo). But WAIT! :-) It seems there are TWO DIFFERENT pressings of that U.S. promo 45! Looking at the copy shown here on 45cat, note that the matrix no. printed on the left side of the label is simply "AS1-9396-SA" on the "(FADE)" side, and "AS1-9396-SAS" on the "(Cold Ending)" side. However, while looking at the photo for this same promo 45 over on Discogs here - which shows only the "(FADE)" side - I noticed that the matrix no. printed at the left is actually "AS1-9396-RE1-SAS"! So what happened??? Clearly, something was changed - but I'm afraid I have no idea what, since I don't own either version myself. So for those here in the class who do have one, it's time to pull out your promo 45(s) of "Lay Your Hands on Me" to see which one you have, and try to compare them! :-) Who knows, maybe they changed the "(Cold Ending)" side on the "RE1" pressings as well...
Ah, but hold on - there's even MORE! :-) It seems that no one here has ever discovered the THIRD U.S. promo 45 for "Lay Your Hands on Me" that features the "(SPECIAL A/C MIX)" on both sides, w/ a printed time of "3:52"! (I have no idea what the actual time is.) Of course, it's again on Arista AS1-9396. A fairly pristine copy is listed & pictured here on 45cat, while a well-used copy w/ writing on it (shown as arriving at the station on "9-23-85") is listed & pictured here on Discogs. The following note appears on 45cat for this version: "The Special A/C (adult contemporary) Mix replaces the Nile Rodgers guitar solo with the piano instrumental interlude from the original 1984 recording. The edits between the two aren't very smooth." Note the matrix no. printed on the left side of the label on this version is "AS1-9396-SA-AC". This promo 45 is evidently quite rare - much more so than the "(FADE)"/"(Cold Ending)" version - and clearly contains a unique version that isn't found anywhere else (vinyl or CD - unless there's a remote chance it could be mixed among the eight "neither" versions on CD in the db???). And yes, "Lay Your Hands on Me" did go on to crack the AC chart in Billboard on 10/05/85 (two weeks after hitting the "Hot 100"), eventually peaking at #14 in a 15-week run there...
4) Next up was the commercial 12" single, released on Arista 9397 (promo copies were identical). It featured two versions of the new Nile Rodgers-produced recording of "Lay Your Hands on Me", along w/ the same song that appeared on the B-side of the commercial 45. Printed times were "3:52" and "6:00". Because the five CDs currently listed in the db w/ the remix - shown as "("Best Of/Greatest Mixes" LP version)" by Pat - have an actual time range of (4:59)-(5:11), it appears that none of them feature either of the two true 12" single versions (as issued here in the U.S., anyway). Therefore, at this time, I think that descriptor should stand. Those five CDs might have the same MIX as found on the original U.S. 12" single (don't own one myself), but unless the printed time of "6:00" is off by nearly a minute, I don't think it would be right to change the descriptor on those to "(12" single version)", as aaronk suggested above. (If the actual timings & versions matched, I'd definitely agree, though - hope I understood you correctly on that one, Aaron!) Interesting that the printed time of the shorter 12" version is "3:52", as that matches the printed time for the "(SPECIAL A/C MIX)" on the rarer promo 45 - although I doubt it, could they be the same???
5) And finally, in September of '85, the group's long-delayed Here's to Future Days album hit store shelves in both the U.S. & U.K., by that time having been pushed back a good 6-8 months, and being almost completely reworked. Like the U.S. 45 & 12" single, it featured a newer version of "Lay Your Hands on Me" that was co-produced by Nile Rodgers, and was issued on Arista 8276 here in the U.S. (While released several months later, note that that catalog no. actually precedes the Perfect soundtrack no. of "8278" by two. So what album fell in the middle, on Arista 8277??? Yep, Jermaine Jackson's Precious Moments, which got pushed back all the way to March of '86!) So w/ the new descriptor for the original (4:08) Alex Sadkin version that appeared on the Perfect soundtrack and other CDs in mind, I feel that the five CDs currently listed in the db clocking in at (4:20)-(4:21) should have their descriptor changed more specifically to "("Here's To Future Days" LP version)" instead...
Although I noticed some errors and omissions, relatively speaking, the Wikipedia page here for "Lay Your Hands on Me" actually does a fairly decent job of attempting to detail/sort out all of the U.S. & U.K. versions of the song (although in most cases it only gives printed timings, which makes things still somewhat confusing)...
Sorry for the long post!
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aaronk
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| Posted: 27 March 2015 at 12:13am | IP Logged
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There could be a logical explanation for the two different promo 45
pressings (not counting the A/C version), and hopefully someone can
confirm. Although
80smusicfreak correctly lists what is printed on the promo 45 labels, it
has been discovered that the "cold" and "fade" sides are accidentally
swapped, at least on some copies. The version that actually ends cold
is on the side of the promo 45 that says "fade." This is the same cold-
ending version found on the stock 45. On the "cold" side of that same
promo 45 is the DJ-only edit that fades during a repeated chorus.
So, while it is possible that the "RE" promo 45s have unique audio, I'm
wondering if this is just a case of re-pressing the 45s so that the audio
matched the description on the label.
Edited by aaronk on 27 March 2015 at 12:16am
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 27 March 2015 at 6:14am | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
...it has been discovered that the "cold" and "fade" sides are accidentally swapped, at least on some copies...
So, while it is possible that the "RE" promo 45s have unique audio, I'm wondering if this is just a case of re-pressing the 45s so that the audio matched the description on the label. |
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Ah, did not know that - good point, aaronk! While typing up my previous post, I found that there IS one other thread on Pat's board here that is dedicated to "Lay Your Hands on Me", but it consists of just one post, and the swapping of the two sides on at least some copies of the "(FADE)"/"(Cold Ending)" promo 45 is NOT mentioned there, either. Funny thing is, that very possibility actually crossed my mind when I first noticed the copy pictured on Discogs was an "RE1" pressing, because quite frankly, I'd always found Pat's db notes for this song a little confusing to begin with. The scenario you just described would also go a long way toward explaining how/why the folks at Time-Life got it wrong on 2005's V/A compilation Another Lost Decade - The 80's: Hard To Find Hits, where they claim the version of "Lay Your Hands on Me" that is featured on that CD is the commercial 45, but is in reality the dj-only version, since it was evidently mastered from vinyl! So w/ this new info in mind, I agree that's probably what's up w/ the "RE1" pressings of the "(FADE)"/"(Cold Ending)" promo 45 - but like you said, hopefully someone can confirm...
80smusicfreak wrote:
1. (3:49) = dj-only 45 version, found on the "(Cold Ending)" side of the common/standard dj 45 (on one U.S. CD - see db)
2. (3:54) = U.S. commercial 45 version, matching the "(FADE)" side of the common/standard dj 45 (on NO U.S. CDs - see db) |
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So just to be sure - since I don't own a copy of the commercial 45 myself - is the above info accurate, or do I need to fix something???
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aaronk
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| Posted: 27 March 2015 at 7:12am | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
80smusicfreak wrote:
1. (3:49) = dj-only 45 version, found on the "(Cold Ending)" side of the common/standard dj 45 (on one U.S. CD - see db)
2. (3:54) = U.S. commercial 45 version, matching the "(FADE)" side of the common/standard dj 45 (on NO U.S. CDs - see db) |
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So just to be sure - since I don't own a copy of the commercial 45 myself - is the above info accurate, or do I need to fix something??? |
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The above information is accurate based on the printed information on the labels. I'm not sure if you should change anything until we know for sure if the different pressings have different audio or if the same audio was simply swapped for some pressings.
Pat/database wrote:
| dj copies of this 45 stated a running time of (3:44) with a cold ending on one side which actually ran (3:49) and faded out during a vocal segment |
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As you can see from Pat's description, the label is incorrectly calling this a "cold ending."
Pat/database wrote:
| while the other side stated a running time of (3:44) with a faded instrumental ending which actually ran (3:54); commercial copies all ran (3:54) even though the label stated a time of (3:44) and feature a faded instrumental ending |
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This is referencing the side of the promo 45 that says "Fade," but Pat calls it a "faded instrumental ending." This is confusing, because that side of the promo 45 and the stock 45 truly have a cold ending (not a "faded instrumental ending"). The stock 45, the "Fade" side of Pat's promo 45, and the 4:21 LP version all end the same way with a cold ending.
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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| Posted: 27 March 2015 at 7:26am | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
| 5. (4:59)-(5:11) = remix, shown as "("Best Of/Greatest Mixes" LP version)" by Pat (on five U.S. CDs - see db) |
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I hadn't noticed this before, but Pat should probably update the database for any CDs that contain this mix and run 4:59. Those CDs contain the "Best Of/Greatest Mixes" LP version faded :12 early. These CDs really do fade out during the instrumental section at the end and never make it to the cold ending like the stock 45, promo 45, and LP version do. I have never encountered a copy of this song on any 45 that actually fades out during this instrumental passage. This is what my commercial 45 actually plays:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDFWRxMyvhw
Edited by aaronk on 27 March 2015 at 7:27am
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Aaron Kannowski
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 27 March 2015 at 10:11am | IP Logged
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My dj 45 is the RE-1 version and sorry to burst the balloon but the labels are reversed on the RE-1 version also. I have changed the entries in the database to take into account suggestions made above but the (4:04) versions are still a neither 45 nor LP version as they are not fades of any other version identified above.
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 28 March 2015 at 8:03pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the clarification on the two versions found on the "(FADE)"/"(Cold Ending)" promo 45, Aaron, and to Pat as well for revising the db notes on that - now it all makes sense to me! :-) Also, thanks for the YouTube link to the correct U.S. commercial 45 version, Aaron...
Great to see all of the modifications to the descriptors in the db, too, Pat - I think we've got about half of this mess cleaned up now! :-) So w/ all of the new info taken into account, here's the newly-revised list of all the known versions of "Lay Your Hands on Me" on vinyl and/or CD, in order of ACTUAL length:
1. (3:49) = dj-only 45 version, known as the "(FADE)", but found on the "(Cold Ending)" side of the common/standard dj 45, which was mislabeled (on one U.S. CD - see db)
2. (3:52?) = dj-only 45 version, known as the "(SPECIAL A/C MIX)", found on both sides of the rarer dj 45; actual time unknown (on NO U.S. CDs - see db)
3. (3:52?) = shorter of two U.S. commercial 12" versions; actual time unknown (on NO U.S. CDs - see db)
4. (3:54) = U.S. commercial 45 version, known as the "(Cold Ending)", but found on the "(FADE)" side of the common/standard dj 45, which was mislabeled (on NO U.S. CDs - see db)
5. (4:03)-(4:04) = unknown origin, shown as "(neither the 45 nor LP version)" by Pat (on four U.S. CDs - see db)
6. (4:07)-(4:08) = LP version from O.S.T. Perfect, which was also the U.K. 45 version (on four U.S. CDs - see db)
7. (4:20)-(4:21) = LP version from Here's to Future Days (on five U.S. CDs - see db)
8. (4:59) = remix, shown as "("Best Of/Greatest Mixes" LP version faded :12 early)" by Pat (on three U.S. CDs - see db)
9. (5:11) = remix, shown as "("Best Of/Greatest Mixes" LP version)" by Pat (on two U.S. CDs - see db)
10. (6:00?) = longer of two U.S. commercial 12" versions; actual time unknown (on NO U.S. CDs - see db)
As it stands now, these appear to be the only three issues that remain, and this song should be completely straightened out:
1) Interestingly - as Pat noted in his latest analysis above - it seems that there was more than one version among the eight CDs labeled in the db as "(neither the 45 nor LP version)" after all! So now we know the four that run (4:07)-(4:08) are all the O.S.T. Perfect/U.K. 45 version. That leaves four others, all of which are just a few seconds shorter, at (4:03)-(4:04) in length. So what is the origin of this one remaining "neither" version??? Could it possibly be the "(SPECIAL A/C MIX)", even though that dj 45 has a printed time of "3:52"??? Pat, by chance does the description of the "(SPECIAL A/C MIX)" on 45cat appear to match what's on those four remaining "neither" CDs (i.e., "The Special A/C [adult contemporary] Mix replaces the Nile Rodgers guitar solo with the piano instrumental interlude from the original 1984 recording. The edits between the two aren't very smooth.")??? Or maybe it's actually the short commercial 12" version, even though that one had a printed time of only "3:52" as well???
2) Now that Pat seems to have discovered that it WASN'T due to the labels being reversed, I can only assume that there must be some sort of unique audio difference on one or both sides of the "RE1" pressings of the "(FADE)"/"(Cold Ending)" promo 45s vs. the originals. So just what is the difference between the two??? Pat, I'm sorta curious: Since the "(Cold Ending)" side of the "RE1" pressings isn't pictured on Discogs, what's the matrix no. printed on yours??? I assume the matrix nos. etched in the vinyl trail-off on both sides of your promo also state "RE"??? Anyone else here have either version of the "(FADE)"/"(Cold Ending)" promo 45??? jimct??? Yah Shure??? Hykker??? edtop40??? :-)
3) And lastly, the "(SPECIAL A/C MIX)" of course needs to be found, analyzed, and added to this song's db notes. Again, anyone here have this particular dj 45???
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promojunkie
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Curious after the last post 6 years ago if anyone has
gotten their hands on the elusive a/c edit for Lay Your
Hands On Me? I've been looking for it many years as
well.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 16 July 2021 at 2:09pm | IP Logged
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I've had the Special A/C Mix promo 45 in my Discogs want list and eBay watchlist since it was first mentioned here in 2015. Not a single copy has become available for sale (unless I somehow missed one). The sale on Discogs for $3.99 in June 2015, as I recall, turned out to be a seller who accidentally listed the normal promo on the wrong release page. I'm 99% sure I'm the one who bought it, and then was bummed to find out it wasn't the right record when it arrived.
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Aaron Kannowski
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promojunkie
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| Posted: 16 July 2021 at 2:33pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Aaron, I wondered if someone here had scooped
it up as the last post and Discogs sale date in 2015
were very close. I've had that happen too where the
seller lists the wrong item for sale. I ask them to
check the catalog number now before purchasing. I'll
let you know if I come across it.
Edited by promojunkie on 16 July 2021 at 6:25pm
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aaronk
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Bumping up for MikeM.
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Aaron Kannowski
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mjb50
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Any thoughts on this Canadian reservice 45 "cut at the correct speed"?
Was there really a wrong-speed pressing released?
Discogs is showing two releases:
• one with A-side "3:44"
• one with A-side "3:52" like the one on Reddit
I'm curious to know what happened here.
Edited by mjb50 on 12 April 2023 at 2:08am
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 12 April 2023 at 7:34am | IP Logged
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I'd never heard of a 45 pressing at the wrong speed for "Lay Your Hands On Me", so I checked all the versions I have.
All the versions on commercially available CDs seem to be the proper speed. The UK mix runs about 102.1 BPM. The US mix runs about 102.9 BPM. All the CD versions I have of the song are in this range.
I have the UK 12 inch single version, from an unknown source, running at 101.8 BPM, which is close enough to the UK mix.
And finally, the TM Century library has the US 45 version (track no. 00020597, 3:52, with cold ending) running too fast at 103.5 BPM. I clocked it as being 0.65% faster than the 45 version in my folders (which Aaron dubbed or recreated). It looks like this track was added to the TM Century library after 1999, based on the track number. I don't know what source TM Century used.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Thompson Twins - Lay Your Hands On Me
