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promojunkie
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| Posted: 25 August 2022 at 6:14pm | IP Logged
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I'm wondering if anyone has this promo 45. The version I
used to hear on the radio back in the 80's was short.
probably about 3:15 in length. I've looked at the promo
45s listed on discogs for Midnight Star - Midas Touch but
none run that length. Is it a case of shorter edit on one
side that did not get labeled correctly? I'd like to
purchase the promo but need to know if it exists, what the
catalog # is.
Edited by promojunkie on 14 October 2022 at 11:32am
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 25 August 2022 at 7:28pm | IP Logged
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Check your email Rick for information about this song.
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mjb50
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Do let us know what you find out.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 25 August 2022 at 11:10pm | IP Logged
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The dub I have on my hard drive from Chuck runs close to 3:15. I created the single version by editing the 12" remix found on CD. I'll try to remember to grab my 45s when I have a chance to see if there really is a pressing that runs longer, but my guess is that the label time for the 3:15ish version is wrong, instead stating 3:46.
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Aaron Kannowski
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mjb50
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 4:15am | IP Logged
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3:46 is just about accurate for the retail single being played in this YouTube video (click). The uploader cut off recording during the final "ding" but if it were to play all the way, it'd be a little over 3:45.
This version, but missing the final ding after the fade, is on the 1987 European compilation CD Hot Remix, and it's not a vinyl transfer. I'm hoping there is another CD somewhere with the whole thing intact.
Edited by mjb50 on 26 August 2022 at 6:23am
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promojunkie
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 4:58am | IP Logged
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If Aaron has a dub that runs 3:15 then my memory is
correct. PopArchivist sent me the 3:15 dub as well. I have
the commercial 45 and it does run 3:43 or so. Now the
question is this version on one of these promo releases
below just not labeled correctly or is it another promo
that has not been listed on Discogs yet.
https://www.discogs.com/release/3597454-Midnight-Star-
Midas-Touch
https://www.discogs.com/release/17950111-Midnight-Star-
Midas-Touch
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 6:22am | IP Logged
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My Stock 45 does have a listed time of 3:46, but it plays
3:15. The is the source of the dub Aaron was referring to.
The 45 itself states "edit of remixed version from LP
Headlines"
the run off has STE 69525A 4 R16234-A+ 13563
Edited by cmmmbase on 26 August 2022 at 6:23am
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mjb50
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 6:32am | IP Logged
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cmmmbase wrote:
| My Stock 45 does have a listed time of 3:46, but it plays 3:15. |
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Ah, so there are two commercially released edits, then, with no change in the labels. (I think they always say 3:46 and "edit of remixed version from LP Headlines".)
aaronk wrote:
| I created the single version by editing the 12" remix found on CD. |
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The ~3:43 retail 45 version is a combination of the two 12" vocal versions. It removes 16 seconds (at 0:23) from the first 3:15 of the "Vocal/Edit of Remix" (5:32) version, and then in a clever, subtle cut which I think happens in between "Midas" and "Touch" background vocals, cuts over to the last 53 seconds of the "Vocal/Extended Remix" (6:37).
The stereo effects are not the same in them, and you need both, so you can't use just one as your only source. For example, listen for the right-channel "Touch" echo every time the lead vocal says "I've got the Midas Touch". That's only in the Extended Remix, and does not show up in the single version until near the end. And the intros have different stereo effects and levels; you need the Edit of Remix to get it right.
The 1992 European CD The Best of Midnight Star has the Extended Remix from a master tape, complete with final ding, so that's a good source for the last 53 seconds. It may also be on the 2019 Japanese reissue CD of Headlines but I've not verified that yet. One place it is not: Ben Liebrand's Grand 12-Inches 10; he fades it out before the last ding.
So, the simplest option to recreate the long 45 is to just copy ending of the Extended Remix from Best Of into the Hot Remix mastering I mentioned in my previous comment. I suggest just replacing the entire ending starting from the 2nd to last ding, when the "Midas Touch" looping background vocals begin, and drop the volume of that section by 1 dB. It will end up just under 3:44.
If you want to track down the Edit of Remix (5:32), I don't think a master-tape copy has appeared on CD yet. It is on the 1986 European CD Maxi Power: N.Y. Disco Giants, but they just used a loud-ish vinyl transfer with audible clicks. Maybe just track down DjPaulT's 2018 12" vinyl transfer in file-sharing land instead.
Edited by mjb50 on 26 August 2022 at 6:41am
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promojunkie
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 7:04am | IP Logged
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Thank you Chuck & Mike for providing more information.
From what I am gathering from the info provided, you can't
just cut off the intro :26 of the 3:43
version (The 45 I have in my possession). It's a
different mix/edit?
Edited by promojunkie on 26 August 2022 at 7:33am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 7:47am | IP Logged
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mjb50 wrote:
The ~3:43 retail 45 version is a combination of the two 12" vocal versions. It removes 16 seconds (at 0:23) from the first 3:15 of the "Vocal/Edit of Remix" (5:32) version, and then in a clever, subtle cut which I think happens in between "Midas" and "Touch" background vocals, cuts over to the last 53 seconds of the "Vocal/Extended Remix" (6:37).
The stereo effects are not the same in them, and you need both, so you can't use just one as your only source. |
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This is exactly right, and I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out! You're also right that the easiest way to get the full 45 version is to edit on the ending from one of the 12" versions that is not faded too soon.
I did also pull my 45s, and here's what I have:
A) stock copy pressed on styrene (printed 3:46; actual 3:44) with deadwax STE-69525-A 2 [FLOWER] [ALLIED SYMBOL] R-16234-A2 [DELTA] 13563 1-1; starts with sound effects for first 0:07 before drums begin
B) stock copy pressed on vinyl (printed 3:46; same intro as styrene pressing, so I presume it also runs 3:44) with deadwax [SRC LOGO] STE-69525-A 1 [FLOWER] 1-1
C) promo copy pressed on vinyl (printed 3:46; actual 3:19) with deadwax [SRC LOGO] STE 69525A 3 [FLOWER] 1-1; the other side's deadwax is the same but has a very light "S" after the "STE" that looks like it was squeezed in after the fact; both sides start with music and edit off the first 0:23 of my stock copies
All of the above have the ending "ding" (not faded early).
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 7:53am | IP Logged
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promojunkie wrote:
| From what I am gathering from the info provided, you can't just cut off the intro :26 of the 3:43 version (The 45 I have in my possession). It's a different mix/edit? |
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Actually, that's exactly what you'd do to create the shorter version, but you'd only remove 0:23. You just need to be sure you also include the ending "ding" from another CD source, given that the Hot Remix compilation fades too soon.
In summary:
- The 3:44 stock 45 version uses the same mix as the "Vocal/Edit Of Remix" found on the 12" but has a different ending than the 12" version.
- The 3:19 promo 45 (and apparently on some stock copies) is an edit of the 3:44 stock 45 version.
- The longer "Vocal/Extended Remix" version on the 12" is a similar remix but has slightly different echo effects in places.
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 7:57am | IP Logged
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cmmmbase wrote:
| My Stock 45 does have a listed time of 3:46, but it plays 3:15. The is the source of the dub Aaron was referring to. The 45 itself states "edit of remixed version from LP Headlines" the run off has STE 69525A 4 R16234-A+ 13563 |
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The dub I have from you stops before the ending "ding." Is your 45 truly missing this at the end, or does the dub cut off too soon? Where your file ends, my promo 45 has about another second of silence and then the ding.
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promojunkie
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 8:39am | IP Logged
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Ok, great. thank you all for the info. This solves the
mystery. Another case of an incorrect label on particular
pressings.
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 11:05am | IP Logged
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Aaron - the 45 does in fact have the ding! Looks like a re-
dub is needed. I must have only played the 45 when dubbing
it - don't recall the ding from when I heard it on the
radio (some 36 years ago...)
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mjb50
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| Posted: 26 August 2022 at 6:59pm | IP Logged
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Heh, I doubt very many radio stations would have played the entire fadeout just to get to that ding. It's more of a treat for the fans who bought the single. Same goes for the bubbly intro.
I do remember hearing at least the beginnings of fadeouts on the pop radio in the '80s, but all the way to near-silence, never.
I'm always amazed at how you guys remember precisely what edits you heard back then, even their durations. I guess I have a few songs like that in my mental catalog, but these days, I have to double-check everything. I'd like to think it's all still in there somewhere, and it's just the recall that's faulty.
Anyway it seems from what you guys have posted, the matrix cut numbers 1 or 2 (after the "A") are 3:43, and 3 & 4 are shortened. My guess is the record company realized that radio didn't like that intro (maybe partly because it sounds a bit like a bong), so they chopped it off, and didn't get new labels made for it.
Edited by mjb50 on 26 August 2022 at 7:15pm
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EternalStatic
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| Posted: 12 October 2022 at 8:16am | IP Logged
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Just a bump of appreciation for this thread. I have the U.S. single version taken from Hot Remix, and I did not realize that it ran short because back in the day, I had verified it to the Youtube rip that is also
posted above, which also runs short.
FYI, if you have the UK 45 version (aka '7" Pop Edit') from the Ultimate Collection, it also works pretty well as a source for the final "ding" that you need to paste on the end of the Hot Remix version to
get the full U.S. 45. Although it is a different mix, the ding is very clean and is a pretty good match the tonality of the Hot Remix transfer.
One question I have re: the short U.S. promo 45 edit: After removing the intro from the full U.S. 45, is the shorter version supposed to begin with the snare/swooshy sound effect (found at about 23.4 of the longer
45), or on the downbeat directly afterward (right at the 24 second mark)? Thanks! Again, truly appreciate this good info.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 October 2022 at 9:12am | IP Logged
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The promo edit starts on the downbeat, so you'll remove the preceding snare and swooshy sound, too.
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EternalStatic
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| Posted: 12 October 2022 at 9:31am | IP Logged
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Thanks, Aaron! I had hoped it was the other around because it sounds pretty cool with the snare. Oh well!
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 13 October 2022 at 7:37am | IP Logged
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cmmmbase wrote:
Aaron - the 45 does in fact have the ding! Looks like a re-
dub is needed. I must have only played the 45 when dubbing
it - don't recall the ding from when I heard it on the
radio (some 36 years ago...) |
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I don't recall hearing a "ding" either but I am sure Aaron can easily fix it so we can. Right Aaron :)
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eriejwg
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Wow, what a mess lol. All for one lost ding.
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Topic: Midnight Star- Midas Touch
