https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Sat, 02 May 2026 08:25:44 +0000 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 06:11:30 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.07 360 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=3695 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum//images/Top-40-Music-on-CD-Forum-Logo.png https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39526&title=windmake-believe#39526 Author: AndrewChouffi
Subject: 3695
Posted: 28 October 2013 at 6:11am

Regarding Jim's comment "I clearly remember my local AM radio DJ saying 'No one can find out a thing about who's actually in this group!'", I seem to recall a Casey Kasem AT-40 broadcast when "Knock Three Times" just hit #1 Casey said "...from Philadelphia". That indicates to me that even the staff of Watermark Inc was being buffaloed at that time regarding the info on the Dawn act.

Andy

Edited by AndrewChouffi]]> Mon, 28 Oct 2013 06:11:30 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39526&title=windmake-believe#39526 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39520&title=windmake-believe#39520 Author: jimct
Subject: 3695
Posted: 27 October 2013 at 8:18pm

Bill, I heard different info on Tony Orlando's late-60's mindset. After his
two Top 40 early 60s solo hits on Epic, by '64, now married with a child,
he transitioned into the business end of music. By the late 60's, he headed
up the songwriter publishing arm of CBS, April-Blackwood Music. Not all
songwriters can bang out a suitable demo of their latest output, to get
passed around by the labels for a possible big-artist release. But everyone
knew Tony was a nice guy, could obviously carry a tune, and would
frequently help writers out by singing demo versions. (Columbia didn't
really mind, as long as he put in his hours and did his 9-5 job.) For
example, just months before "Make Believe" hit, his demo of "I Was A Boy
(When You Needed A Man)" was released on the Buddah-distributed
Harbour label #304. But Orlando had no plans to reactivate his own
singing career/abandon his lucrative gig, so he requested that the label
not use his real name on it. So they used "Billy Shields". This song bubbled
under the Hot 100, and got some CT airplay. My understanding was
always that "Make Believe" was simply another example of Tony helping
out some old buddies, while again insisting on anonymity. (Any bad blood
surely came from Bo Gentry & Co., who no doubt then wanted
more personal involvement from Orlando than he'd signed up for, once
the song hit.) Actually, Orlando still had the exact same mindset for
Dawn's 1970 "Candida" 45. When it was a current, I clearly remember my
local AM radio DJ saying "No one can find out a thing about who's
actually in this group!" Which wasn't all that unusual at the time - fake
groups, like the Cuff Links, Pipkins, The Archies, etc. were also having
hits. It wasn't until Dawn's huge follow-up hit, "Knock Three Times" in
early '71, when Orlando finally decided to quit his publishing job, jump
back into the music biz full-time, hire session singers Telma Hopkins and
Joyce Vincent (who did not sing on either of Dawn's first two hits), and
start recording and touring full-time. This almost appeared to be a
terrible mistake, since as soon as Tony did this, Dawn's next 6 singles all
missed the Top 20. Until, finally, "Tie A Yellow Ribbon" hit #1, in the
Spring of 1973.

Edited by jimct]]> Sun, 27 Oct 2013 20:18:20 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39520&title=windmake-believe#39520 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39519&title=windmake-believe#39519 Author: Bill Cahill
Subject: 3695
Posted: 27 October 2013 at 6:59pm

As far as what happened to the tapes who knows? It was on Life Records which was distributed by Earth Records, both independent, both only existing in 1989 so the tapes wouldn't be inherited by a major label. I'm sure somebody has tried to license it over the years, maybe they hit some dead ends. Since Kenny Laguna put it on the Blackheart records compilation he probably figured that since he was involved, along with Bo Gentry, Joey Levine, and Artie Resnick, (Joey and Artie established Earth) that he could just take some vinyl and put it out on CD. I've read there was some bad feelings about Tony Orlando leaving the Wind project to do Dawn, so everyone involved at Life/Earth may have just given up on the project and didn't care what happened to the tapes, or future licensing.   ]]> Sun, 27 Oct 2013 18:59:23 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39519&title=windmake-believe#39519 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39518&title=windmake-believe#39518 Author: Yah Shure
Subject: 3695
Posted: 27 October 2013 at 6:39pm

Steve, my DJ and stock Life 200 45s are similar: ARP pressings, mono A-sides and mono "Groovin' With Mr. Bloe" on the B-sides. DJ deadwax is -"1024-" and the script ARP logo; stock deadwax is "1024-2" and script ARP logo.

There are some label differences: the title fonts on both sides of the DJ are larger than the corresponding ones on the stock. The DJ has an irregularly-shaped silver ink blob to the bottom right of the life symbol on both sides in a not-entirely-successful attempt to obscure the "(R)" (registered trademark) logo underneath (the stock has neither the blob nor the "(R)".)

The DJ has "Exclusively Dist. by EARTH RECORDS, 322 W. 48th ST., N.Y., N.Y. U.S.A." arced around the bottom perimeter of the label. The stock has this as well, but also states "LIFE RECORDS, A Division of BO GENTRY CONCEPTIONS, INC." printed in a similar fashion directly above it.

(An aside: was Bo Gentry ever associated with another hit after "Make Believe" ran its course? The last I ever recall seeing his name on a 45 label at all (and not counting Musicor's 1973 45 issue of Gene Pitney's 1970 album track, "Shady Lady") was on Columbia 45389 in 1971, "Days Of Our Lives" by Spencer Barefoot, an artist whose name had previously appeared on the Life label's next single release (#201) after "Make Believe." Perhaps Morris Levy's threat to see to it that Bo never had another hit [as mentioned in Tommy James' book] might have had some muscle behind it, so to speak, "Make Believe" notwithstanding.)

I concur with Bill's assessment regarding the extra reverb on the 45.

EDIT: I see Jim was posting similar 45 information. Regarding the "...Mr. Bloe" B-side, Kenny Laguna claims on his website that the BBC played the wrong side of the 45. Take that with at least one grain of salt, as there are a number of other things Kenny mentions that I find are highly debatable.

Edited by Yah Shure]]> Sun, 27 Oct 2013 18:39:43 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39518&title=windmake-believe#39518 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39517&title=windmake-believe#39517 Author: jimct
Subject: 3695
Posted: 27 October 2013 at 6:30pm

Steve, I own both a promo 45 and two stock 45 copies of the "Make
Believe" single on Life 200. Deadwax on my promo copy is simply "1024-
", while both stock copies show "1024-2". On my promo, "Make Believe" is
in mono and only appears on one side of the 45. It features the same flip
side as my stock 45s do, the instrumental "Groovin' With Mr. Bloe".   

Just FYI, for those interested, regarding the flip side. For some reason,
BBC radio somehow both obtained and occasionally played the flip, likely
as an harmless instrumental fill between BBC programming segments. (I
have found no evidence of a 1969 UK 45 release of "Make Believe" - only
for the US and Canada.) Somehow, the catchy ditty caught the ear of an
exec with the mainly-UK DJM label (which also had two brief runs as a US
entity, in both 1969-70 and 1975-76.) DJM's Stephen James wanted to
release the song as an UK 45 A-side, but couldn't obtain the UK rights to
it. Undeterred, James quickly had a "clone" version recorded. He decided
to call the group of studio musicians "Mr. Bloe." James was right - this
version became a #2 UK smash hit, in 7/1970. Inspired by the UK success,
the original US version was then re-issued here (with the artist now
credited as "Cool Heat", as Forward 152.) This later US release issue did
manage to eke onto the BB Hot 100 in 8/70, with the exact same
recording.]]> Sun, 27 Oct 2013 18:30:48 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39517&title=windmake-believe#39517 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39513&title=windmake-believe#39513 Author: Hykker
Subject: 3695
Posted: 27 October 2013 at 3:04pm

Bill Cahill wrote: There are a couple of small differences between the LP and 45 other than length, the LP mix is missing some reverb heard on instruments on the 45, most notably the drums in a couple of places. The LP mix also runs slightly slower than the 45.

Anyone have a promo of this? ISTR it being noted on the
label as being stereo...the station I worked at in 1969
was an AM, so I had no way of knowing for sure (for some
reason it stood out in my mind if only because stereo
promos were not that common back then, especially on a
small independent label). ]]> Sun, 27 Oct 2013 15:04:15 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39513&title=windmake-believe#39513 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39511&title=windmake-believe#39511 Author: Santi Paradoa
Subject: 3695
Posted: 27 October 2013 at 9:45am

The single was on the Life label, so who might have the
master tapes all these years later (if they even still
exist)?]]> Sun, 27 Oct 2013 09:45:07 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39511&title=windmake-believe#39511 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39508&title=windmake-believe#39508 Author: Bill Cahill
Subject: 3695
Posted: 26 October 2013 at 1:23pm

I don't have the CD but I do have the stock 45 and LP. The LP is stereo and runs 2:59 (label also states 2:59) so I'd assume the 2:57 version on CD is the stereo LP faded early.

The single is mono, and as Pat notes runs 2:52 with a label time of 2:50.

There are a couple of small differences between the LP and 45 other than length, the LP mix is missing some reverb heard on instruments on the 45, most notably the drums in a couple of places. The LP mix also runs slightly slower than the 45. ]]> Sat, 26 Oct 2013 13:23:30 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39508&title=windmake-believe#39508 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39505&title=windmake-believe#39505 Author: Todd Ireland
Subject: 3695
Posted: 26 October 2013 at 1:05pm

I greatly appreciate your review, Mark! Thank you so much for saving me the money and trouble of purchasing this disc.]]> Sat, 26 Oct 2013 13:05:49 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39505&title=windmake-believe#39505 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39496&title=windmake-believe#39496 Author: MMathews
Subject: 3695
Posted: 25 October 2013 at 3:24pm

Paul,

I have "Laguna Tunes" and everything on it is from vinyl, and sadly, laden with heavy noise reduction. Buyer beware.
MM]]> Fri, 25 Oct 2013 15:24:56 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3695&PID=39496&title=windmake-believe#39496