https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Tue, 14 Apr 2026 07:42:15 +0000 Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:38:22 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.07 360 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=1035 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum//images/Top-40-Music-on-CD-Forum-Logo.png https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60231&title=cherish-association#60231 Author: maciav
Subject: 1035
Posted: 15 February 2022 at 4:38pm

Thank you for responding.

I apologize for not responding sooner. I have not been
able to be on this site much lately.

Thank you for your kind offer; in fact, I have the same
Dick Bartley CD.

I discovered years later that the scratchy sound I
initially wrote about 16 years ago is on all CDs that I
own with the stereo LP-version. These have an extra "And
I do. Cherish you." Therefore, the stereo LP-version is
longer in length than the mono 45-version. Off the top
of my head, the mono 45-version runs around 3:12;
nonetheless, CDs such as the Bartley CD with the mono 45-
version do not have this scratchy sound because it occurs
during the extra lyrics I mention above. Perhaps this
scratchy sound is supposed to be on the stereo LP-
version, or I have just been hearing things for a very
long time.

Again, any CDs with the mono 45-version (and I know there
are not many of them that have been released) do not have
the scratchy sound that caused me to write my original
post.

Thanks again.
Mike]]> Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:38:22 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60231&title=cherish-association#60231 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60230&title=cherish-association#60230 Author: maciav
Subject: 1035
Posted: 15 February 2022 at 4:26pm

AdvprosD wrote: Is maciav still hanging around this forum? I'd be happy to provide the mono version I have on the D.B. Rock & Roll Love Songs. IIRC, I picked it up on ebay for like 9 or 10, bucks a few years ago. I also listened to the 1966 Superhits that Ron mentioned above. On the disc I have, I didn't detect any of the scratchy noise maciav described. I did hear a diminished "Pop" sound again at the 00:50 point. More like 00:50.5 on this stereo recording. Sounds like the same noise with a hint of NR applied to remove it. I sure was surprised to hear nothing in the right channel for a few seconds though. I know that kind of stuff was popular to do at the time. I had thought my headphones were messing up at first.

]]> Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:26:29 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60230&title=cherish-association#60230 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60226&title=cherish-association#60226 Author: whyaduck
Subject: 1035
Posted: 12 February 2022 at 8:25pm

VWestlife wrote: You can remove Haeco-CSG processing by using an audio editor to apply a 90 degree phase shift to the right channel. Unfortunately there is no way to tell whether it was originally applied as a negative phase shift or positive phase shift, so if the two channels come out as out-of-phase after removing the Haeco-CSG phase shift, then invert one of the channels to correct it. In the case of the Association "Greatest Hits" album (on LP or CD), some tracks have Haeco-CSG with a positive phase shift, some have it with a negative phase shift, and some don't use it at all (the ones which were mixed with everything far left or far right and don't have anything in the middle). The big hits -- "Cherish", "Windy", "Never My Love", and "Along Comes Mary" -- all sound far superior with the Haeco-CSG processing removed. Other notable hits with Haeco-CSG processing which wasn't removed for their CD releases: Cream - White Room Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 - Fool On The Hill The Vogues - Turn Around, Look At Me

There are 2 Wheels Of Fire releases I know of that the CSG have it removed (or possible never present on the masters used), the 2010 SHM-CD and SHM-SACD from Japan.

Which one prefers is in the ear of the beholder!

Edited by whyaduck]]> Sat, 12 Feb 2022 20:25:18 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60226&title=cherish-association#60226 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60183&title=cherish-association#60183 Author: VWestlife
Subject: 1035
Posted: 06 February 2022 at 10:26am

You can remove Haeco-CSG processing by using an audio editor to apply a 90 degree phase shift to the right channel. Unfortunately there is no way to tell whether it was originally applied as a negative phase shift or positive phase shift, so if the two channels come out as out-of-phase after removing the Haeco-CSG phase shift, then invert one of the channels to correct it.

In the case of the Association "Greatest Hits" album (on LP or CD), some tracks have Haeco-CSG with a positive phase shift, some have it with a negative phase shift, and some don't use it at all (the ones which were mixed with everything far left or far right and don't have anything in the middle).

The big hits -- "Cherish", "Windy", "Never My Love", and "Along Comes Mary" -- all sound far superior with the Haeco-CSG processing removed.

Other notable hits with Haeco-CSG processing which wasn't removed for their CD releases:

Cream - White Room
Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 - Fool On The Hill
The Vogues - Turn Around, Look At Me
]]> Sun, 06 Feb 2022 10:26:41 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60183&title=cherish-association#60183 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60181&title=cherish-association#60181 Author: AndrewChouffi
Subject: 1035
Posted: 06 February 2022 at 6:22am

NightAire wrote: Reading about the Haeco-CSG process on CSG">Wikipedia, it got me wondering if this process might be a benefit to internet radio stations, which are often listened to on (mono) smartphone speakers and (mono) smart speakers like Amazon Alexa Dot and Google's Nest.

Hi Gene,

I would suggest no internet station experiment in 2022
with this process as it makes headphone listening a
diffuse, confusing experience (and a lot of people listen
on headphones these days).

Plus, by the early-to-mid '70s about 99% of all
professionally released recordings were mixed to be
compatible in stereo as well as when folded down to mono.
The reason why the Haeco-CSG system was introduced back
in the '60s was because some smaller studios had only 4-
tracks, or only 8-tracks with no pan-pots on the board -
therefore phantom-center channel information might
dominate side-channel information when folded down to
monaural. Record companies at that time wanted to save
money by not hiring union studios to also mix in mono now
that stereo was the customer-preferred format.

Andy]]> Sun, 06 Feb 2022 06:22:15 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60181&title=cherish-association#60181 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60179&title=cherish-association#60179 Author: NightAire
Subject: 1035
Posted: 05 February 2022 at 10:13pm

Reading about the Haeco-CSG process on Wikipedia, it got me wondering if this process might be a benefit to internet radio stations, which are often listened to on (mono) smartphone speakers and (mono) smart speakers like Amazon Alexa Dot and Google's Nest.

Does anybody know of any FM stations that have used the process to compensate for listeners using alarm clock radios and small transistor radios?

Edited by NightAire]]> Sat, 05 Feb 2022 22:13:43 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60179&title=cherish-association#60179 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60155&title=cherish-association#60155 Author: AndrewChouffi
Subject: 1035
Posted: 05 February 2022 at 6:17am

Hi People,

Please keep in mind a few CDs have that
Godawful Haeco-CSG
processing on "Cherish" that was first
introduced on the
vinyl 'Association's Greatest Hits' LP, and
subsequently
made it to the 'Association's Greatest Hits'
CD.

Andy

Edited by AndrewChouffi]]> Sat, 05 Feb 2022 06:17:44 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60155&title=cherish-association#60155 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60151&title=cherish-association#60151 Author: crapfromthepast
Subject: 1035
Posted: 04 February 2022 at 8:20pm

One more: I can trace the mastering on Superhits as being the same analog transfer as the Warner Special Products Association collection called Songs That Made Them Famous (1984), but shortening the very tail of the fade by a few seconds.

I still prefer the Rhino disc.]]> Fri, 04 Feb 2022 20:20:12 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60151&title=cherish-association#60151 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60150&title=cherish-association#60150 Author: AdvprosD
Subject: 1035
Posted: 04 February 2022 at 7:15pm

Is maciav still hanging around this forum? I'd be happy to provide the mono version I have on the D.B. Rock & Roll Love Songs. IIRC, I picked it up on ebay for like 9 or 10,
bucks a few years ago. I also listened to the 1966 Superhits that Ron mentioned above. On the disc I have, I didn't detect any of the scratchy noise maciav described. I did
hear a diminished "Pop" sound again at the 00:50 point. More like 00:50.5 on this stereo recording. Sounds like the same noise with a hint of NR applied to remove it.

I sure was surprised to hear nothing in the right channel for a few seconds though. I know that kind of stuff was popular to do at the time. I had thought my headphones
were messing up at first.

Edited by AdvprosD]]> Fri, 04 Feb 2022 19:15:48 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60150&title=cherish-association#60150 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60149&title=cherish-association#60149 Author: crapfromthepast
Subject: 1035
Posted: 04 February 2022 at 6:28pm

Quick write-up:

The oldest mastering I have is on Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 1 1966, where it sounds fine but the levels are a little low. The same analog transfer is used on:

• Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 9 1966 (1995)
• JCI's Only Rock 'N' Roll #1 Radio Hits 1965-1969 (1996)
• Time-Life's Heart Of Rock 'N' Roll Vol. 20 1965-1966 RE-1 reissue (1997)

There's a new analog transfer of Rhino's Billboard Top Pop Hits 1966 (1995), which runs a teeny bit faster and is EQ'd with much more high end.

There's still another analog transfer on Mystic Music's 2-CD Groovin' (1992), which has its left and right channels swapped.

I'm partial to the Rhino mastering myself, but I like the boosted high end.]]> Fri, 04 Feb 2022 18:28:01 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035&PID=60149&title=cherish-association#60149