https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Thu, 30 Apr 2026 14:16:55 +0000 Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:49:59 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.07 360 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=114 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum//images/Top-40-Music-on-CD-Forum-Logo.png https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=543&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#543 Author: Todd Ireland
Subject: 114
Posted: 21 February 2005 at 2:49pm

I was flipping through my copy of Joel Whitburn's Top Pop Singles 1955-1999 and, in the introduction on page "x", he states his policy for determining the "official" single version of a hit song. This should help answer some of the questions posed in this thread. I've reprinted the following passage verbatim:

The standard configuration for the pop singles chart from 1955-1989 was the 7-inch 45 rpm vinyl single, referred to hereafter as the "45". All singles within these three and one-half decades were released commercially as "45s" unless otherwise indicated. We do not show a "(v)" symbol after the label and numbers of titles during those years, as it would accompany nearly every one of those titles.

On July 28, 1990, the cassette single replaced the "45" as the standard configuration on the Hot 100. For our research, 1990 is the first year that the label and number of all singles refer to the cassette singles, unless otherwise indicated.

On June 27, 1998, the CD single replaced the cassette single as the standard configuration on the Hot 100. Our starting point for the CD single as the configuration referred to in the label and number column is December 5, 1998, the date that Billboard indtroduced it most revised Hot 100 ever. From this point on, the label and number refer to the CD single. If the song is not commercially available, then the label and number are taken from the promotional CD unless otherwise indicated. Record companies occasionally release several promo CD singles of one song with each featuring different mixes of that song. In such cases the label and number of the promo CD single featuring the song's popular radio mix appears in the label and number column and the label and number of the other promo CD singles appear in the song's title notes.]]> Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:49:59 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=543&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#543 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=454&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#454 Author: Moderator
Subject: 114
Posted: 11 February 2005 at 9:48pm

My take is that I will start adding comments such as "cassette single version", "cd single version" etc so that the reader may make his or her own judgement as to which version is their favorite.]]> Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:48:42 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=454&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#454 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=450&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#450 Author: Todd Ireland
Subject: 114
Posted: 11 February 2005 at 2:50pm

aaronk wrote: Personally, I've always thought of the "45 version" as the hit version that everyone knows. And for the most part, radio stations always played the 45 versions of songs, and the videos usually matched the 45 versions, at least in the 1980s and prior. But what about hits from the 1990s and 2000s? 45s have hardly existed since 1990. We're still using the term "45 version," but are we referring to the version that was available on the commercial singles (cassette or CD)?

This is an excellent question, Aaron, and I've wondered the very same thing. Should the "45 version" comment be used specifically to describe a song as it appeared on the actual commercial vinyl 45, or should it be used generically to denote any single version? I'm not sure what Pat's policy is on this, but it does seem to make more sense to list "single version" instead of "45 version" in cases where no commercial vinyl 45 is available.

Then there's the whole separate issue of when a Top 40 song is released commercially on two different formats (say, cassette single and CD single), but each features a different version or mix of the song. Which of the two versions should be regarded as the "true" single version?

There are several ways to sift through this and come up with a "definitive" single version. I personally favor referring to a commercial single's catalog number as it was listed on the Billboard Hot 100 Singles chart as the chief determining factor. Others may argue that the most popular commercial single configuration of the particular point and time a song is released, whether its vinyl 45, cassingle, CD single, or maxi-CD single, should be considered the single version. Yet others may contend that anything appearing on a vinyl 45 should be the determining factor because for decades how a song appeared on vinyl 45 made it the undisputed single version. I'd be interested to hear Pat's or anyone else's take on this.]]> Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:50:56 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=450&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#450 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=412&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#412 Author: Brian W.
Subject: 114
Posted: 05 February 2005 at 10:50pm

aaronk wrote: But on the other hand, why do we collect music at all? I would say because we love it and we like to listen to it. So, why not just collect the version of the song that we like to listen to the most, whether it's the "single version" or "lp version" or "radio edit"? After all, what's the point in having a bunch of CDs sitting on a shelf collecting dust that we'll never play?

Well, all collectors (of all types of objects) get asked that. I've asked myself that. But an equally relevant question is why collect Top 40 music, period? If we like a song or a record, why not just buy it? Why do we care anything about its chart performance?

If we REALLY just bought what we liked, well... we wouldn't be collectors, we'd be fans. That's sort of what "collecting" is -- you want to buy items to complete a collection, or you want to add something really unique to your collection.

If you asked most collectors WHY they collect something, you'd get the same answer: "I don't know." I'll bet most of us have some mild degree of obsessive-compulsive disorder (I know I do). Maybe it's a way of having one thing in our lives that we have 100%, complete control over.

Or it's like a game. Challenge: Collect all of such-and-such. Prize: Well, nothing, but goal achieved.

Just like a tennis game with your friend. Why play? To win. Why do you want to win? "Uh...uh... I don't know."
]]> Sat, 05 Feb 2005 22:50:30 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=412&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#412 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=411&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#411 Author: aaronk
Subject: 114
Posted: 05 February 2005 at 4:12pm

Brian W., that is true. There may be more than one "hit" version of a song, but only one "single version"--the one on the commercial 45, cassette, or CD single. So, if you're out to collect all the "single versions" of songs, the fact that the Billboard chart now factors in downloads will pose a problem to your collecting when there aren't singles available for those songs.

But on the other hand, why do we collect music at all? I would say because we love it and we like to listen to it. So, why not just collect the version of the song that we like to listen to the most, whether it's the "single version" or "lp version" or "radio edit"? After all, what's the point in having a bunch of CDs sitting on a shelf collecting dust that we'll never play?]]> Sat, 05 Feb 2005 16:12:03 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=411&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#411 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=407&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#407 Author: Brian W.
Subject: 114
Posted: 04 February 2005 at 4:33pm

Unfortunately, for the last 15 years or so, at least, there was more than one "hit" version -- most promo CD singles contain multiple mixes, multiple versions.

What was the hit version of Whitney's "So Emotional"? I believe the video used the LP version or LP edit, the US single was the LP edit, but my local Seattle station at the time mainly played the Shep Pettibone "Edited Remix," which was ONLY available on the promo CD, not issued commercially in America at all. (Which I own... one of my most prized CD singles!) However, that remix WAS the commercial single version in the UK.

Amy Grant's "Baby Baby" -- the video used the LP Version, which was the A-side of the single... but radio mainly played a drastic remix, which was included on the B-side of the single and, according to an article I read at the time, largely responsible for the song climbing to #1. (And for lots of returned copies of the album when people weren't getting the remix they heard on the radio, according to the same article!)

So I guess in some ways using the "single version" is also a way of choosing one from several versions out there, any one of which could be the "hit" version, depending on where you lived, what your local station played, which video channel you watched, etc.]]> Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:33:33 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=407&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#407 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=405&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#405 Author: aaronk
Subject: 114
Posted: 04 February 2005 at 4:09pm

I guess part of the reason that we care about matching the single version is because, until the last few years, the rankings on the Hot 100 were largely determined by single sales -- 50%, I believe. So that single is what helped propel the song up the charts -- therefore, that's the version a lot of us want.

I see your point here, BUT...I, as a big music collector (also anal about getting certain versions of songs), have often times heard a song on the radio and seen the video and then went to buy the CD single. Only to my disappointment, the version on the single is NOT the one that I was familiar with and hoping to obtain. So yes, the charts are (or were) propelled by singles sales, but why did people buy the single in the first place? Because they heard it on the air and liked it enough to buy it.

So, that's why I have always tried to find the "hit" versions of songs, and not necessarily the one that was on the commercial single. But we all have different reasons for building our collections the way we do, and that's what makes it fun!]]> Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:09:43 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=405&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#405 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=403&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#403 Author: Brian W.
Subject: 114
Posted: 04 February 2005 at 4:41am

I forgot to add that the only reason no one buys singles anymore is because they don't MAKE THEM anymore. CD singles were BIG in the late 90s -- lots of CD single titles sold in the millions. That's why they stopped making them. They were doing TOO well, and the record companies wanted to make you buy the whole album to get it on CD.

I guess part of the reason that we care about matching the single version is because, until the last few years, the rankings on the Hot 100 were largely determined by single sales -- 50%, I believe. So that single is what helped propel the song up the charts -- therefore, that's the version a lot of us want.

For my own collecting, I consider the cassette single to be the single version after 1989 or so, up until the mid-nineties, when CD singles started really catching on.]]> Fri, 04 Feb 2005 04:41:04 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=403&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#403 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=402&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#402 Author: Brian W.
Subject: 114
Posted: 04 February 2005 at 4:33am

Good points, Aaron. I always think of "45 version" as meaning "single version"; generally two-track single version -- one that matches the configuration of a 45.

A better example than "If" (which, you're correct, was not played on the radio because the single version was not included on the radio promos) is Mariah Carey's "I Still Believe." The video and probably most radio airplay used the LP Version, which was the leadoff track on the maxi-single.

However, the two-track cassette, CD, and 45 (which was actually issued with a picture sleeve and was available in stores) all used a mid-tempo remix of the song, called the "Pure Imagination" remix. It was more than a remix, though -- much if not all of it was a completely separate recording. (In fact, the track was actually listed as "I Still Believe/Pure Imagination."

But most people would consider the "hit" version to be the LP ballad version. So there's a blurry line there.

Why do we care what the single version was? Oh... just to give us something to be anal-retentive about, I guess. That's the way a lot of collectors are.]]> Fri, 04 Feb 2005 04:33:50 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=402&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#402 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=401&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#401 Author: aaronk
Subject: 114
Posted: 03 February 2005 at 10:54pm

Some interesting points are being brought up here, but I think we need to lay down a definition before drawing conclusions.

Personally, I've always thought of the "45 version" as the hit version that everyone knows. And for the most part, radio stations always played the 45 versions of songs, and the videos usually matched the 45 versions, at least in the 1980s and prior.

But what about hits from the 1990s and 2000s? 45s have hardly existed since 1990. We're still using the term "45 version," but are we referring to the version that was available on the commercial singles (cassette or CD)? Why do we even care about the version that was on the commercial cassette or CD single?

Take the recent thread about Janet Jackson's "If," for example. I'd be willing to bet that almost every radio station in the U.S. played the "Radio Edit." I don't recall which version was used on the video, but in many cases the "Radio Edit" versions are used. Therefore, the version that most people would know as the "hit version" would be the "Radio Edit."

As a consumer, if I'm looking in Pat's book for the "hit version" of a song, having "45 version" next to it (for songs from the 1990s to present) wouldn't necessarily mean I'm getting the version I'm looking for. It would just mean that I've found the version that was released on the cassette single. But, as Todd pointed out, single sales are very low. Why would I care if I had the version on the cassette single if that's not the version that was the hit?

Anyhow, just some more food for thought. If you ask me, I'd say put "hit version" in the book next to songs that are from the 90s to present that never had vinyl 45s.]]> Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:54:46 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114&PID=401&title=billboard-unveils-the-new-hot-100#401