https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Mon, 04 May 2026 12:26:20 +0000 Thu, 03 Mar 2022 12:08:54 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.07 360 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=8648 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum//images/Top-40-Music-on-CD-Forum-Logo.png https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60364&title=david-bowie-fame#60364 Author: eriejwg
Subject: 8648
Posted: 03 March 2022 at 12:08pm

I just created a 45 version from the LP version as that's
what I had available in my library from Qobuz. My recreation
runs 3:30.]]> Thu, 03 Mar 2022 12:08:54 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60364&title=david-bowie-fame#60364 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60363&title=david-bowie-fame#60363 Author: mjb50
Subject: 8648
Posted: 03 March 2022 at 11:53am

eriejwg wrote: What's the best source for the 45 edit? I have it on Millennium Classic Rock Party. Or, would it be better to recreate my own 45 edit?

The one on Millennium Classic Rock Party isn't bad, it's mainly just the noise reduction that's a problem for those of us who are sensitive to such things. You might not even notice it.

If you really want to get the fade-in right, trim off the first 0.8s (so the file starts 0.09s before the "click"), and then fade up the next 0.7s. Also trim the silence off the end if you want to be as pedantic as me.

If you do want to create your own edit, you need to start with the album version as mastered on the 1996 ChangesBowie reissue or on The Singles 1969 to 1993. [update:] Who Can I Be Now? also works well. Just follow Ron's instructions to cut out one section on the down beat (the "1" when counting "1-2-3-4") from 2:09 to 2:54. Then follow my advice for the fade-in. PMing me is also an option.

Edited by mjb50]]> Thu, 03 Mar 2022 11:53:41 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60363&title=david-bowie-fame#60363 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60362&title=david-bowie-fame#60362 Author: crapfromthepast
Subject: 8648
Posted: 03 March 2022 at 11:47am

For what it's worth, I determined that Rhino's Millennium Classic Rock Party (1999) uses the same analog transfer as Rhino's Have A Nice Decade The '70s Pop Culture Box (1998), but truncated before the start of the spoken announcement that's the last portion of the track on Decade. In other words, the music fade is completely preserved, but the dialogue is deleted.

Too bad about the NR.

Edited by crapfromthepast]]> Thu, 03 Mar 2022 11:47:56 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60362&title=david-bowie-fame#60362 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60361&title=david-bowie-fame#60361 Author: eriejwg
Subject: 8648
Posted: 03 March 2022 at 10:07am

What's the best source for the 45 edit? I have it on
Millennium Classic Rock Party.

Or, would it be better to recreate my own 45 edit?

Edited by eriejwg]]> Thu, 03 Mar 2022 10:07:27 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60361&title=david-bowie-fame#60361 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60359&title=david-bowie-fame#60359 Author: aaronk
Subject: 8648
Posted: 03 March 2022 at 8:24am

I agree with you on the noise reduction on the Rhino disc. The reverb tails are absent, and it's as you stated a a tape-type reverb (i.e. dbx / Dolby).]]> Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:24:25 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60359&title=david-bowie-fame#60359 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60358&title=david-bowie-fame#60358 Author: mjb50
Subject: 8648
Posted: 02 March 2022 at 11:22pm

garye wrote: The single version of "Fame" I have and a few other single releases from that period is from a CD titled "Recall-2" from 2006. The sound is clean and punchy in a good way. No NR or hiss. Not sure where the version came from.

Re:Call 2 is not from 2006; it is disc 12 of the 2016 box set Who Can I Be Now? [1974-1976]. I agree that it has no noise reduction to speak of. This means that it does have hiss. That's a good thing, because the reverb tails are in there too.

garye wrote: I compared a RCA 45 dub, up against the version of Fame from the Re:Call 2 CD version I have. Couldn't tell much of difference.

Unfortunately, you overlooked that the "Original Single Edit" they put on the Re:Call 2 disc is not the 45 version! It was first released in 2015 on a vinyl picture disc, and it's quite close, but the edit point they used at 2:09 involved cutting about one beat later on each end (slightly before the two beat, rather than the one), thereby eliminating the cymbal crash and guitar chord which is in the true 45 version at 2:09. It's a cleaner edit and really should've been the original single version, but oh well.

The beginning and ending of this "Original Single Edit" matches the original Young Americans LP (I checked) in that its fade-in begins early and loud at the very beginning, such that you can fully hear two studio noises which on other releases were barely audible or not included at all. The first noise is a man's voice saying something like "thurry" (sorry? thirty? alright?). Then you hear some kind of click or drop or tap; I'm not sure what it is. Based on scratchy 45 rips on YouTube, it seems the 45 begins its fade-in right before this second sound, but the fade is such that the click or whatever is obscured by vinyl surface noise.

Likewise, the fade-out at the end of the "Original Single Edit" is quite gentle and matches the original LP, so you can pretty plainly hear the cold ending of the final guitar riff and bass note. However, on CD they quickly fade it out in the last fraction of a second, so you don't hear the half-second of hum and hiss after the bass is done; I personally think it's too sudden.

Anyway, I agree with Ron that the album version on Rykodisc's 1993 Bowie compilation The Singles 1969-1993 has very little noise reduction and sounds great; it's a good source for recreating the 45 version. However, I disagree that the 45 version Rhino put on the 1999 Millennium Classic Rock Party compilation doesn't have noise reduction. The noise reduction on it is quite strong, to my ears, and it's the exactly the same as what's on my copy of EMI's The Singles Collection.

The type of noise reduction seems to be bandlimited dynamic range expansion, as one might get via a dbx 3bx unit. It's an effective technique for reducing tape hiss, but when over-applied, as it was here, it also has a muting effect (sudden fade-down) on some reverb tails, which imparts a sort of "halting" effect in the music. I think I mentioned this in a previous post about the Taco "Puttin' on the Ritz" transfers. A treble boost can help somewhat—EMI tried it on The Singles Collection—but it doesn't really fix the problem.

A slightly better option for making your own edit is to start with the mastering found on the 1996 reissue of ChangesBowie. This reissue has the album version instead of the 1990 remix. It's almost identical to what's on The Singles 1969 to 1993, but EQ'd just a hair brighter, and the ends aren't faded so much, which makes it a better match for both the album and the 45. In fact, the fadeout is perfect as-is.

Regardless of which album you start with, to match the single, you'll have to trim a little from the beginning and apply an extra fade-in. The song should start at 0.09 sec. before the click. Apply a 0.70 sec. linear fade-in from there. After this, the click will not really be audible, but should be visible on a spectrogram.

In my opinion, the database should be changed as follows:
• Have A Nice Decade - The ‘70s Pop Culture Box (45 version, but with strong noise reduction, and followed by a news report from the oil crisis era)
• Millennium Classic Rock Party (45 version, but with strong noise reduction)
• Who Can I Be Now? (Box Set) (failed attempt at recreating the 45 version)

The duration on Who Can I Be Now? should be listed as 3:31. The database currently says 3:30. When you guys said it was 3:34, you were including several seconds of silence at the end of the CD track.

As for the extra studio noises at the beginning of all three of these, that may deserve a note as well. The Who Can I Be Now? edit has the album version's fade in and thus has both noises plainly audible, as I mentioned. The Rhino releases start their fade-in after the voice, but still too early, so the second noise is pretty easy to hear, whereas on the 45 the fade-in starts slightly later so you can't really hear the noise.

All this to say that there's still no really well mastered 45 version on CD. You either have excessive noise reduction (in my opinion) or a close-but-wrong edit.


3/3/2022 - After more analysis, I've edited this post to change several details about the fade-in and fade-out, and to add the 1996 ChangesBowie recommendation.

Edited by mjb50]]> Wed, 02 Mar 2022 23:22:24 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=60358&title=david-bowie-fame#60358 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=56010&title=david-bowie-fame#56010 Author: garye
Subject: 8648
Posted: 27 September 2020 at 2:52pm

Ok. I compared a RCA 45 dub, up against the version of
Fame from the Re:Call 2 CD version I have.
Couldn't tell much of difference.
Both have some reverb in the beginning, but sound the
same all the way through, even repeated listenings.
The only difference is the 45 dub timed out at 3:27
and the other version at 3:34.
The 45 rip fades out about 3 seconds earlier that the
CD rip.
The fade out times are about the same, just quicker
once it starts on the 45.
Hope this helps.
BTW both mixes are indentical to my ears.]]> Sun, 27 Sep 2020 14:52:43 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=56010&title=david-bowie-fame#56010 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=55963&title=david-bowie-fame#55963 Author: eriejwg
Subject: 8648
Posted: 25 September 2020 at 9:46am

Is there a mix difference?]]> Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:46:55 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=55963&title=david-bowie-fame#55963 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=55952&title=david-bowie-fame#55952 Author: RamapoGrad
Subject: 8648
Posted: 24 September 2020 at 4:04pm

Nothing on CD sounds like the original RCA 45, which to
my ears has more impact and extra reverb on the vocals
compared to the LP mix.]]> Thu, 24 Sep 2020 16:04:04 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=55952&title=david-bowie-fame#55952 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=55939&title=david-bowie-fame#55939 Author: garye
Subject: 8648
Posted: 23 September 2020 at 1:34pm

[QUOTE=David Pro] The 45 version of "Fame" running
3:31 has never appeared on any
Bowie compilations released on CD.
It was, though, included in a
European compilation by K-Tel
titled The Best of Bowie
(not to be confused with the 2002
compilation Best of Bowie)
which was released in 1980.

https://www.discogs.com/David-
Bowie-The-Best-Of-

David, my copy of "Fame" from the Recall 2 CD times at
3:34. First thought might have been pitched down, but
compared it to a 45 scratchy dub so pitch is the same.
The 45 times at 3:30 on fade out.
Not sure where the CD version I have comes from.


Edited by garye]]> Wed, 23 Sep 2020 13:34:13 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8648&PID=55939&title=david-bowie-fame#55939