https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Mon, 13 Apr 2026 04:09:19 +0000 Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:42:20 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.07 360 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=8969 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum//images/Top-40-Music-on-CD-Forum-Logo.png https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50326&title=chart-books-20-off#50326 Author: RoknRobnLoxley
Subject: 8969
Posted: 15 October 2018 at 6:42am

EdisonLite wrote: Thanks for the info. My biggest interest is for the '70s and '80s, so if I find this book, it will be interesting to see where the songs peaked on the UK charts in that 20 year period vs. the Guiness Book peaks, which are the only peaks I currently know of for UK singles from that period.

There is another chart that kept on going thru the 70s & 80s = Melody Maker. Record Mirror ceased compiling their own charts in 1962 and started carrying Record Retailer charts. Disc ceased compiling their own charts in 1967 and started carrying Melody Maker charts. NME and Melody Maker kept producing their own charts until June 1988. The NME charts are in those books I mentioned, available in used copies from Amazon, I strongly recommend them.

Melody Maker charts were not published in a book, but I can direct you to a website.

The 70s Melody Maker singles charts are here:
https://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102595&hili t=tiscali

The 80s Melody Maker singles charts are here. The years jump around, but they're all in there (I think). Note that in June 1988 Melody Maker (and NME) ceased compiling their own charts and started carrying the MRIB charts, which take over here up thru Dec 1989:

https://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=95375

One other tidbit of info, prior to Feb 1969, all the 5 major independent music paper charts produced their own charts by averaging the chart positions of their reporting record shops. Each shop would report their top record sellers each week to their home music paper, but in ranked form, a Top 30 or so, that did not include actual sales numbers. NME and Melody Maker continued with this methodology thru June 1988. The national SALES based chart was started in Feb 1969, and they totaled up actual sales from their reporting record shops. First known as the BMRB chart, then Gallop, then CIN, then Official. Record Mirror, Record Retailer, and the BBC carried and used this new chart starting in Feb 1969. But it took years for the new calculation method to stabilize and become reliable, and for the 'industry' to finally accept it. So the NME and Melody Maker charts were still very meaningful way into the 70s, some would say up thru 1979.


]]> Mon, 15 Oct 2018 06:42:20 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50326&title=chart-books-20-off#50326 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50318&title=chart-books-20-off#50318 Author: AndrewChouffi
Subject: 8969
Posted: 14 October 2018 at 7:50am

To RoknRobn:

A very well-written editorial.

Thank you!

Andy]]> Sun, 14 Oct 2018 07:50:12 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50318&title=chart-books-20-off#50318 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50315&title=chart-books-20-off#50315 Author: EdisonLite
Subject: 8969
Posted: 13 October 2018 at 11:15pm

Thanks for the info. My biggest interest is for the '70s and '80s, so if I find this book, it will be interesting to see where the songs peaked on the UK charts in that 20 year period vs. the Guiness Book peaks, which are the only peaks I currently know of for UK singles from that period.]]> Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:15:27 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50315&title=chart-books-20-off#50315 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50308&title=chart-books-20-off#50308 Author: RoknRobnLoxley
Subject: 8969
Posted: 13 October 2018 at 7:07am

EdisonLite wrote: That sounds interesting. What does NME stand for? I assume this is the UK weekly charts. Do the peaks match up with UK's Guinness "British Hit Singles"?

The NME singles chart peaks only agree with the Guinness books for 1952 to March 1960. The NME album chart peaks do not agree at any time with the Guinness peaks.

For the singles charts, Guinness used NME charts 1952-Mar 1960, Record Retailer charts Mar 1960-Feb 1969, and from then on the new national sales based BMRB chart which eventually got renamed to what is now the Official Charts.

For the album charts, Guinness did not use NME. Instead, they used the Record Mirror charts 1956-1958, Melody Maker charts 1958-Mar 1960, Record Retailer charts Mar 1960-Feb 1969, then the new national sales based BMRB chart which eventually got renamed as the Official Charts. NME album charts were produced from 1962 to 1988, when they ceased compiling their own chart and started carrying the MRIB album chart.

With my usual disclaimer, there were no 'official' UK singles charts before Feb 1969. There were 5 major independent weekly music paper charts (NME, Record Mirror, Melody Maker, Disc, Record Retailer) plus the BBC average chart. Starting in the early 70s, 4 different UK chart books/series were published that documented the UK singles charts. They all used different combinations of the NME, Record Mirror, and Record Retailer charts, NONE of them were in agreement as to what to use for the 50s & 60s. Chart research, as done by Alan Smith and others, has determined that NME is the best/most representative chart for the 50s, and Melody Maker for the 60s. That is to say, they sampled the most record shops for their data, and agreed with the other charts of the day the most often. Record Retailer was the worst chart to use for the 60s as Guinness and the Official Charts have done, as it was the least followed, least accurate, had the highest volatility, sampled the fewest record shops, and disagreed the most often with the other charts of the day. It is interesting to note that the Guinness books did not claim Record Retailer as 'official' for the 60s, but rather they only listed what charts they were using for their books. And on top of that, the Official Charts company did not start proclaiming Record Retailer was 'official' for the 60s until after 2001. They decided to rewrite history to suit their means, proclaiming something that was not true, and thus confusing millions of Brits.

The 2 best examples to illustrate how bad Record Retailer was for the 60s. In 1963, The Beatles 'Please Please Me' peaked at #1 on the NME, Melody Maker, and Disc charts for 2 weeks each, and for 3 weeks on the BBC average chart. Based on the sampling of 270 UK record shops. On the Record Retailer chart, it peaked at #2, based on a sampling of 30 record shops. Which is to be believed, #1 from 270 shops, or #2 from 30 shops? Same thing for The Rolling Stones '19th Nervous Breakdown', #1 for 3 weeks on NME, Melody Maker, Disc, and the BBC average, based on 500 record shops in 1966. On the Record Retailer chart, it peaked at #2 based on 80 record shops. Which is to be believed, #1 from 500 shops, or #2 from 80 shops?

So despite what the Guinness books and the Official Charts website say, don't believe the false rewritten history. Record Retailer was not 'official' for the 60s, there was no national sales based chart until Feb 1969. It might be 'official' for the Official Charts Co, but it was not 'official' for the UK, no way no how.

For an exhaustive report on the UK charts of the 50s & 60s, check out this article by UK chart expert Alan Smith, who researched this information for years, interviewing the people who put the various charts together:

https://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=103263


Edited by RoknRobnLoxley]]> Sat, 13 Oct 2018 07:07:38 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50308&title=chart-books-20-off#50308 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50307&title=chart-books-20-off#50307 Author: Paul Haney
Subject: 8969
Posted: 13 October 2018 at 5:41am

EdisonLite wrote: That sounds interesting. What does NME stand for? I assume this is the UK weekly charts. Do the peaks match up with UK's Guinness "British Hit Singles"?

NME = New Musical Express]]> Sat, 13 Oct 2018 05:41:28 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50307&title=chart-books-20-off#50307 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50296&title=chart-books-20-off#50296 Author: EdisonLite
Subject: 8969
Posted: 12 October 2018 at 10:42am

That sounds interesting. What does NME stand for? I assume this is the UK weekly charts. Do the peaks match up with UK's Guinness "British Hit Singles"?]]> Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:42:33 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50296&title=chart-books-20-off#50296 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50149&title=chart-books-20-off#50149 Author: RoknRobnLoxley
Subject: 8969
Posted: 26 September 2018 at 5:04pm

RoknRobnLoxley wrote: EdisonLite wrote: I just purchased the British Hit Singles (and Albums) 19th Edition book (the final one in the series), which goes up to 2006, and is like our main Whitburn Pop Singles book. I previously only had one volume - 9 - through 1992 (which only had Singles). Does anyone know if there's a UK equivalent of our decades charts (hot 100 charts) books? I'd like to buy the equivalent one for the '70s, but I don't think the UK has the scope of books released that Joel Whitburn has done. I don't know of any UK 70's decade Top singles charts book, but you have 2 substitute options: --The Virgin Book of Top 40 charts, available on Amazon UK and US, which covers 1960 thru 2008, but only lists the weekly charts thru position 40. Noting that the official charts didn't start until Feb 1969, and they are using the least accurate chart Record Retailer to represent the 60s instead of the much better accurate charts Melody Maker or NME. --The Official UK Charts website has the full charts 70s and otherwise. For the 70s, it's a Top 50 chart thru April 1978, then it becomes a Top 75 thru 1979. But again, the official charts didn't start until Feb 1969. They use the NME charts 1952 to March 1960, a wise choice, but they use the Record Retailer charts March 1960 to Feb 1969, the worst possible choice.

I forgot to mention, NME also published their own books of charts. Not by decades, but their singles charts book ran from 1952 to 1992, "40 Years of NME Charts". And their album charts book "30 Years of NME Album Charts". Both books were revised once. Used copies available on Amazon UK and maybe US. So you've got all your NME single and LP charts for the 70s contained here in these 2 volumes. The 70s singles chart only had 30 positions, the 70s albums chart began with 20, ended with 30 positions. So not as many positions as the 'official' charts for the 70s, but good to compare and contrast.

Edited by RoknRobnLoxley]]> Wed, 26 Sep 2018 17:04:59 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50149&title=chart-books-20-off#50149 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50131&title=chart-books-20-off#50131 Author: Paul Haney
Subject: 8969
Posted: 25 September 2018 at 5:53am

Yeah, didn't think the Cash Box 1956 and 1957 book would
be of too much interest here. I'm still working on
getting all the 1957 information entered. Even though
it's before my time too, I'm really learning A LOT about
some obscure titles and artists for sure!]]> Tue, 25 Sep 2018 05:53:51 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50131&title=chart-books-20-off#50131 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50123&title=chart-books-20-off#50123 Author: Chartman
Subject: 8969
Posted: 24 September 2018 at 12:15pm

Paul failed to announce these two new books:

https://www.recordresearch.com/pop/cash_box_regional_h
its_1956.php

https://www.recordresearch.com/pop/cash_box_regional_h
its_1957.php

Looks like both of these books took ALOT of time to
research to come up with an additional 1,270 songs
from 1956 and 1,700 songs from 1957. Plans are to do
1958, 1959 and 1960 books also.

Guessing this was Joel's pet project and Paul's
eyesight probably suffered. Not sure how commercially
successful these will be (thinking low) but sadly I
will purchase neither. Maybe a compilation volume
1956-1960 though.]]> Mon, 24 Sep 2018 12:15:07 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50123&title=chart-books-20-off#50123 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50086&title=chart-books-20-off#50086 Author: RoknRobnLoxley
Subject: 8969
Posted: 17 September 2018 at 7:13am

EdisonLite wrote: I just purchased the British Hit Singles (and Albums) 19th Edition book (the final one in the series), which goes up to 2006, and is like our main Whitburn Pop Singles book. I previously only had one volume - 9 - through 1992 (which only had Singles). Does anyone know if there's a UK equivalent of our decades charts (hot 100 charts) books? I'd like to buy the equivalent one for the '70s, but I don't think the UK has the scope of books released that Joel Whitburn has done.

I don't know of any UK 70's decade Top singles charts book, but you have 2 substitute options:

--The Virgin Book of Top 40 charts, available on Amazon UK and US, which covers 1960 thru 2008, but only lists the weekly charts thru position 40. Noting that the official charts didn't start until Feb 1969, and they are using the least accurate chart Record Retailer to represent the 60s instead of the much better accurate charts Melody Maker or NME.

--The Official UK Charts website has the full charts 70s and otherwise. For the 70s, it's a Top 50 chart thru April 1978, then it becomes a Top 75 thru 1979. But again, the official charts didn't start until Feb 1969. They use the NME charts 1952 to March 1960, a wise choice, but they use the Record Retailer charts March 1960 to Feb 1969, the worst possible choice.

Edited by RoknRobnLoxley]]> Mon, 17 Sep 2018 07:13:08 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8969&PID=50086&title=chart-books-20-off#50086