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DIXIE CUPS - CHAPEL OF LOVE

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MMathews View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MMathews Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2011 at 4:44pm
Ok

Thanks to Ed for providing me a dub of the original 45.

Now, for my purposes here, "stereo mix" refers only to
the more modern stereo mix that first appeared on CD. To
my knowledge, first issued on the 1995 DCC disc "Too
Cute" mastered by Steve Hoffman.
This new mix was different than the old vinyl stereo;
that was a very strange mix that first appeared on the
1967 v/a comp called "Incense And Oldies" on Buddah. I
don't have access to the vinyl stereo mix right now.

When the CD mix first came out, Mike Callahan thought it
was an underdub only missing some reverb, and the "yeah
yeah's" during the ending.
So later cd's by Taragon (Red Bird/Blue Cat Story), and
then Varese too, used the new CD mix and synched in the
"yeah yeah's" and added reverb.

It still sounded to me like a vocal underdub through-out.
The mono 45 mix has lush, thick vocals, more than just
added reverb. It stands out more in the harmony parts,
such the line "we'll love until the end of time".

So, for comparison I synched the 45 dub to one of the
mono CD appearances to be sure that
version/length/overdubs all matched, and they do. For the
mono source, I ended up chosing the soundtrack to "Full
Metal Jacket" since it sounds nice and clean there.   

I also synched the original 45 to the stereo version and
the backing tracks are indeed identical.

However, note Pat's comment about the chimes at 2:00 -
2:04. They ARE different, but only in that one spot. In
the stereo mix, the chimes there are a lower octave and
on the 45 they are higher there. At some point when
finishing the mono mix, they wanted those chimes higher
so they must have dubbed them right over the low ones,
since again, the backing track is identical.
The chime/xylophone at 2:22 is simply potted down in the
45, was left turned up in the stereo mix.

The VOCALS i think i need other ears to help me out here.

They are either an alternate vocal take, OR an underdub.
When you synch an underdub in one channel, and the full
version with overdubbed vocals in the other, you
typically get a stereo effect with vocals sounding split
left and right. But you also get this effect when they
are 2 different takes. One can usually tell the
difference if one listens closely. Well, I'm leaning
towards underdub as i thought, but can anyone lend me an
ear?   
PM me and i'll email an mp3 of my synch file.
Any help much appreciated.

My synch file is:   
left channel: The DCC stereo mix, folded to mono
right channel: the mono 45 mix taken from CD.

PS - if this is an underdub, my tests of synching this
tell me i can make a pleasing stereo mix of this with all
the missing overdubs, it should sound pretty nice. -MM
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AdvprosD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdvprosD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2024 at 7:13pm
With a database as huge as this, I will likely spend the rest of my natural life finding new things about these old tracks.

I picked up a collection of CDs that had an extremely dry version of this track. In fact, it's the first time I think I've ever heard this without echo or reverb.

From the CD "Rock 'n Roll Relix 1964-1965 - 18 Classic Hits" (1996), Possibly formerly a collection called "Lotta Rock" from an unknown year.
The first thing that grabbed me was the dry nature of this track. Reading the label, it is listed as a stereo cut. So, I'm not really sure how much this has been
monkeyed with for this collection.

As I've mentioned before, there are so many intricacies that define what the original, or true sound of a single should be, I think I'm going forward with what I
prefer to hear in my personal collection. I really like this version! And, I will probably replace the personal collection on my phone with this. I may find that it
sounds completely unacceptable in the car, so I may not.

Reading Mark's comments above, I'll have to dig into the definitions of "Underdubs."
<Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo!
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crapfromthepast View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crapfromthepast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2024 at 9:31am
Mono version

This was the hit version back in 1964.

The oldest CD I have with the mono version is Rhino's Wonder Women The History Of The Girl Group Sound (1986). It runs 2:47 here, and sounds quite nice. You can clearly hear the word "chapel" before the fade. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Time-Life's Rock 'N' Roll Era Vol. 10 1964 (RE-2 reissue, not original)
  • Rhino's Billboard Top R&B Hits 1964 (1989)
  • Rhino's Best Of The Girl Groups (1990)
  • Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1964 (RE-1 reissue released in 1993; song not on original release)
  • Time-Life's Heart Of Rock 'N' Roll Vol. 9 1964 (1996) - starts to fade toward end of the word "chapel"
The original 1987 release of Time-Life's Rock 'N' Roll Era Vol. 10 1964 is mono, but it sounds like mud here and fades out in the middle of the word "chapel". Avoid.

Stereo versions

I believe the oldest CD with a true stereo version of any type is DCC Compact Classics' multi-artist compilation Too Cute! (1995). This version is pretty dry, with almost no reverb at all. This mix is far too clean and dry to my ears, and doesn't sound consistent with 1964. It also runs out farther than any other version out there, running to 2:51. The bells from 2:00-2:04 are relatively low in pitch.

There's another stereo version on Varese's Dick Bartley On the Radio Vol. 3 (1998), which includes more reverb than the DCC version, and runs about 7 beats shorter than the DCC version. It has its left and right channels swapped, compared to the DCC disc. The bells from 2:00-2:04 are relatively low in pitch, like the DCC disc. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Varese's Dick Bartley Rock And Roll Greatest Love Songs (1999)
  • Varese's Totally Oldies Vol. 4 (2002)
There's a narrowed stereo mix on TM Century's track numbers 00000331 and 00010002 (small volume glitch near end). The TM Century versions have the high-pitched bells from 2:00-2:04, which is different from the Varese discs.

Fake stereo

These sound awful.

Avoid all of these:
  • Motown's Girl Groups: The Story Of A Sound (1987)
  • Priority's Best Of 60s Mellow (1987)
  • Roulette's American Rock N Roll Classics Vol. 4 (1988)
  • K-Tel's Golden Girl Groups (1989)
  • Good Music's 2-CD Rare Gold (1990)


Edited by crapfromthepast
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bounder's Bay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2024 at 11:04pm
The DCC "Too Cute" version was mixed from four track by Hoffman. It is an "underdub" in that it lacks some vocal overdubs from the
'finished' 'original'; see here:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/too-cute-
dcc-oldies-c ompilation-cd.357878

2998097">https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/beach-classi cs-by-steve-on-dcc-a-chartbustin-appreciation-thread-track-b y-track.126344/page-11#post-
2998097


Edited by Bounder's Bay
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