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ELO Evil Woman - Top 40 Music on CD Forum - Page 2
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ELO Evil Woman
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Steve Carras View Drop Down
MusicFan
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Joined: 29 July 2005
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Carras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2019 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by EdisonLite EdisonLite wrote:

With all those edits and what might
appear to be a hatchet job to ELO fans, when I always
heard this song on top 40 radio growing up, I only knew
the edit!


Very good point! BTW Happy Valentine's day to everyone..
You know you're really older when you think that younger singer Jesse McCartney's related in anyway to former Beatle Paul McCartney.
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eriejwg View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eriejwg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2019 at 7:59am
I've been a fan or promo edits and 45 versions/mixes since
I can remember. Thanks to an another link I found online
which listed differences in a long list of songs
contributed by the late James Abbott, I found THIS site.
Long live the edits!
John Gallagher
John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment
Snapblast Photo Booth
Erie, PA
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NightAire View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NightAire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2021 at 12:27pm
I'm a little surprised CFTP hasn't posted the definitive list of versions and the edit points on this one as I'm sure he's done the research. I'm working from a YouTube video of someone playing the 45 and so I'm missing two bits of information: the speed increase and the fade length. However, I can share the exact edit points.

I'm working with the 24 bit / 192 kHz remaster of the Face The Music LP (which is disappointingly clipped! Why go for the crazy bit rates and sample rates and then crush the peaks!! I digress...).

The main thing you need to know about this version is that it STARTS with the instrumental that in early CDs was on the END of the previous song... so if you're working with an older CD, you'll want to subtract 16 seconds from my edit points.

Each new edit point is the time on the file AFTER the previously listed edit. I think I've confused some people in the past with that.

REMOVE:

1) 0:00 - 0:28 (Song starts with piano)

2) 0:14 - 0:18 (intro to lyrics is now just under 15 sec)

3) 0:29 - 0:37 (removes "there's a hole... ...played to win")

4) 1:54 - 2:14 (shortens instrumental & "Hey"s section)

5) 2:32 - 2:36 (removes "I came a runnin' every time you cried")

--

Again, the single is sped up but I can't determine by how much, and it fades early but I can't tell from what point and by how much. Somebody with the actual 45 will have to provide those pieces of the puzzle.

I hope this helps somebody!
Gene Savage
http://www.BlackLightRadio.com
http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage
Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
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crapfromthepast View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crapfromthepast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2021 at 9:28pm
I'll say right up front: Jeff Lynne was a production genius in the '70s, but his songs were not sonic masterpieces. A lot of his songs will never sound "good", in the Steely Dan-type/show-off-your-stereo definition of "good".

LP version (4:18)

The oldest CD I have with "Evil Woman" is probably Jet's ELO's Greatest Hits (copyright 1979, released on CD in 1986). The EQ is way too bass-heavy, it fades a few seconds more quickly than all the other CDs out there, and it's likely from a higher-generation source tape than others. Avoid.

Discogs says that Jet's US pressing of Face The Music (copyright 1975) was released on CD in 1987. (Just for reference, the fade on this disc extends about 16 beats longer than on GH. The last thing we hear on this disc is the female backup singer singing "evil woman".)

I think the same source tape as Face The Music is used on Sandstone's Reelin' In The Years Vol. 1 (1991), which extends to the same length and sounds very similar to Face The Music. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • DCC's Rock Of The 70's Vol. 1 (1992)
  • Mystic Music Presents Bell Bottom Rock (1996) - shortens fade by about 8 beats
There's a new analog transfer on Telstar UK's Very Best Of (1989), which sounds muddy and all kinds of horrible. Avoid.

There's a new analog transfer on the box set Afterglow (1990), which may possibly use the same source tape as Face The Music, but with a MUCH brighter EQ, and somehow too much "air" for the song. I'm not sure that's a good thing for this song. To draw an analogy, if the overall presence sounds restrained on Face The Music, it sounds positively unhinged on Afterglow. Was there some noise reduction setting that was off on Afterglow? On this disc, the tail of the fade is truncated. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Razor & Tie's 2-CD Those Rocking '70s (1991) - hastens fade slightly so doesn't just truncate
  • Sony's 35 Years Of Rock And Roll (1992) - hastens fade slightly so doesn't just truncate
There's a new analog transfer on the 2-CD Strange Magic The Best Of (1995). Here, it extends out to the full length on Face The Music. Over the years, Strange Magic has been my favorite ELO collection, with a nice EQ (or as nice as EQ is going to get for ELO tracks), seemingly low-generation source tapes, and no artifacts from noise reduction.

There's a new analog transfer on Epic/Legacy's Essential (2003). It sounds good, but not as good to my ears as Strange Magic. The fade is also a little shorter than Strange Magic. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Time-Life's Legends For Your Love (2004)
  • Time-Life's 2-CD Classic Soft Rock Vol. 9 Cool Night (2007)
I have one last new analog transfer on All Over The World The Very Best Of (2005), which has a smiley-face EQ and shortens the tail of the fade.

At the end of my analysis, I ended up going with Jet's 1987 CD of Face The Music, which probably uses low-generation source tapes and likely has the least amount of processing on it. The 1995 Strange Magic best-of is a close second, and I heartily recommend it if you like ELO.

45 version (3:14)

Not found on CD.

If you absolutely must edit this from scratch, use Strange Magic as the source of the LP version and follow these steps:

Delete 0:00 to 0:12.0 of the LP version.

Segment 1
Starts on the first piano note.
Ends on a downbeat, exactly 8 beats after the crash cymbal.
Extends from 0:12.0 to 0:26.2 of LP version.
Extends from 0:00.0 to 0:14.2 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Delete the 8 beats from 0:26.2 to 0:30.2 of the LP version.

Segment 2
Starts on a downbeat, on a crash cymbal before the first word "Hey".
30 beats long
Ends two beats before a true downbeat.
Extends from 0:30.2 to 0:45.2 of the LP version.
Extends from 0:14.2 to 0:29.2 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Delete the 16 beats from 0:45.2 to 0:53.2 of the LP version.

Segment 3
Starts two beats before a true downbeat (vocals start on the true downbeat, 2 beats into this segment).
Ends on a downbeat in the instrumental section, 16 beats after the crash cymbal that starts the instrumental section.
Extends from 0:53.2 to 2:18.2 of the LP version.
Extends from 0:29.2 to 1:54.3 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Delete the 40 beats from 2:18.2 to 2:38.3 of the LP version.

Segment 4
Starts four beats before part where drums drop out.
Ends on a downbeat, three beats after the snare on the word "cup".
Extends from 2:38.3 to 3:16.2 of the LP version.
Extends from 1:54.3 to 2:32.2 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Delete the 8 beats from 3:16.2 to to 3:20.1 of the LP version.

Segment 5
Begins on a downbeat.
Ends after the female singer sings "evil" and before she sings "woman". (Confirmed by a nice YouTube dub of the 45.)
Extends from 3:16.2 to 4:01.6 of the LP version.
Extends from 2:32.2 to 3:13.6 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Fade
Extends from about 3:50 to 4:01.6 of the LP version.
Extends from about 3:02 to 3:13.6 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Your mixdown (before any speed correction) will run 3:13.6, with edits at 0:14.2, 0:29.2, 1:54.3, and 2:32.2, and a fade from 3:02 to 3:13.6.

I found that the 45 runs 0.43% slower than the LP speed from 0:00 to about 1:28, then runs at the LP speed from about 1:28 to about 2:08, then runs 0.43% slower than the LP speed from 2:08 to the end of the 45.

I don't know what to make of that exactly, but it tells me that you shouldn't adjust the speed of the LP version to make the 45. Just leave it at the LP speed, unless you really want to make yourself queasy.

If you want a shortcut (and I didn't check the edits rigorously, but I assume that others did), here's what I would to do reproduce the 45:

Start with the version on Rhino's Have A Nice Decade Disc 6 (1998). Delete the 8 beats, downbeat to downbeat, from 2:32.4 to 2:36.4. That's it. Stop there. That will get you close enough for all practical purposes.

Have fun!

Edited by crapfromthepast
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
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VWestlife View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VWestlife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2021 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by crapfromthepast crapfromthepast wrote:

I found that the 45 runs 0.43% slower than the LP speed from 0:00 to about 1:28, then runs at the LP speed from about 1:28 to about 2:08, then runs 0.43% slower than the LP speed from 2:08 to the end of the 45.

To me it sounds like the LP version has pretty bad tape drag in the middle, especially during the piano solo where you can hear it start to go out of tune, and this may have been their attempt to compensate for that. I think later transfers/remasterings of the LP version have tried to correct the speed deviation as well.
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EdisonLite View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdisonLite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2021 at 10:03pm
<If you want a shortcut (and I didn't check the edits rigorously, but I assume that others did), here's what I would to do reproduce the 45:
Start with the version on Rhino's Have A Nice Decade Disc 6 (1998). Delete the 8 beats, downbeat to downbeat, from 2:32.4 to 2:36.4. That's it. Stop there. That will get you close enough for all practical purposes.>

That's how I made the edit. Does anyone know if this would be the correct single version (with the exception of accidental pitch changes, which I wouldn't want in my version anyway? :)

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