Elton John - Your Song - Top 40 Music on CD Forum

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JL328

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Posted: 22 May 2016 at 8:12am

JL328 wrote:

Just curious where the line is on LP/45
version designations when the primary difference is mono vs stereo,
but there's no different vocals or instrumentation.

If I may
rephrase this question...does the lack of a version designation in
instances where the LP was in stereo but the 45 was in mono indicate
that the mono version of the 45 is merely a fold-down of the stereo
version? Or is that not necessarily the case?

Edited by JL328

Pat Downey View Drop Down

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Posted: 22 May 2016 at 9:20am

I do not use a "version" designation unless there is a rather significant mix or instrumentation difference between the LP and 45 version. A good example is the "Your Song" situation where I felt there was significant enough reverb added to the 45 to warrant a 45 version comment. Of course now you are going to ask how I define "significant" and there are no hard and fast rules that I apply -- it is always subjective. Are you an attorney by trade by any chance?

Indy500

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Posted: 22 May 2016 at 1:45pm

Brian W. wrote:

Indy500 wrote:

The 95/96 reissues were all remixed by
Gus Dudgeon from the master tapes; though he tried to
remain loyal to the original mixes there are subtle
changes. This may date the change.

Wish we had the mono 45 mix available.

The Gus Dudgeon remasters were not remixed. This was in
the liner notes for all of them:

"All the tapes used to create these new masters are the
original mixes. However, due to the fact that many of the
tapes are at least 25 years old, they have been "softened
up" to varying degrees. So, the sound has been passed
through the most up to date digital processing equipment,
at 20 Bit Resolution; namely The Sadie Digital System and
Prism Super Noise Shaper. The effect is purely to
"enhance" rather than "colour" the sound."

You're right about that quote but I swear I remember an interview in ICE magazine with Gus that he went back to the master tapes and, using his original mixing notes, mixed the albums again. I can tell you that the live album Here An There has small differences like the kid yelling "Elton" at the beginning of Funeral For A Friend almost disappearing from the CD remaster.

Anyway I'd bet "The Superior Sound of Elton John" is actually the source of the alternate mix of Your Song.

Edited by Indy500

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Posted: 22 May 2016 at 3:33pm

I agree that "Your Song" was lifted from "The Superior Sound of Elton John" for the Elton John Greatest Hits CD. The original Elton
John Greatest Hits vinyl was equalized very hot on the high end, and that master was probably deemed unacceptable for CD release. My
money is on Steve Hoffman (although not credited) mastering "Greatest Hits", and he grabbed the "Superior Sound" mix of "Your Song",
just like he did with "Daniel" on that Dunhill compilation.

eriejwg

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Posted: 22 May 2016 at 3:52pm

Any idea if his 2 other Uni songs, "Levon" and "Tiny
Dancer" were dedicated mono mixes?

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Posted: 22 May 2016 at 4:21pm

John, Mark edited his post above to add that no mono version exists for "Tiny Dancer," even on the promo 45.

Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

aaronk

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Posted: 22 May 2016 at 4:27pm

JL328 wrote:

If I may rephrase this question...does the lack of a version designation in instances where the LP was in stereo but the 45 was in mono indicate that the mono version of the 45 is merely a fold-down of the stereo version? Or is that not necessarily the case?

We all wish it were that simple! Unfortunately, there are many cases in the database where a dedicated mono mix does not prompt a "45/LP version" designation if there is no "significant difference" (which is, as Pat says, at his subjective conclusion) between the mono and stereo. In a nutshell, there has to be something added to or subtracted from the mix, or an edit within the song, to get a "version" designation.

Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

Bill Cahill View Drop Down

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Posted: 24 May 2016 at 4:43am

Levon is clearly a dedicated mono mix on the 45. But I don't hear anything that is added or missing in the 45 mix in comparison to the stereo mix. The
single features the piano boosted here and there, as well as other instruments adjusted up and down, it's a more aggressive mix in general which gives the
single more "punch". No extra reverb. Anyone want to start an Elton singles thread?

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Posted: 24 May 2016 at 10:25am

aaronk wrote:

John, Mark edited his post above to add that no
mono version exists for "Tiny Dancer," even on the promo 45.

I have a good many of EJ's promo 45's and the Uni promos I have are
all stereo. Though my "Tiny Dancer" does contain a shorter edit that I
believe to be promo only. The only mono promo I have is "Crocodile
Rock" b/w Elderberry Wine" both sides are mono. Ever stock copy I
have seen are mixed in stereo

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Posted: 24 May 2016 at 1:16pm

Fastphilly wrote:

I have a good many of EJ's promo 45's and the Uni
promos I have are all stereo. Though my "Tiny Dancer" does contain a
shorter edit that I believe to be promo only. The only mono promo I have
is "Crocodile Rock" b/w Elderberry Wine" both sides are mono. Ever stock
copy I have seen are mixed in stereo

You must be missing some of his UNI promo 45s then, Fastphilly, because
although both my U.S. promo 45s for "Border Song" (UNI 55246; BB #92,
8/70) and the earlier U.S. 45 issue for it, (as Congress 6022, in 4/70) both
state and are stereo, "Friends" (UNI 55277) and "Levon" (UNI 55314) are
both in mono. UNI stock 45s for all three songs mentioned in this
paragraph were issued in mono. Also, mono on at least one promo 45
side were included on the non-UNI promos "Lady Samantha" (DJM 70008)
(12/68) & (Congress 6017) (3/70) and "From Denver To L.A." (Viking
1010) (5/70).

And although "Crocodile Rock" (MCA 40000) is the only mono-only promo
45 that I know of on that label, I do also own mono/stereo MCA promo
45s for "Daniel" (MCA 40046), "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" (MCA 40148),
"Step Into Christmas" (MCA 65018), "Bennie And The Jets" (MCA 40198),
and "Philadelphia Freedom" (MCA 40364). I have also pulled/checked all
my other Elton John MCA promo 45s up to and including 1980 (in addition
to the 1975 Polydor PRO-002 promo of "Pinball Wizard"), and they are all
stereo only.

Edited by jimct