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Billy Swan-"I Can Help"

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jimct View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Billy Swan-"I Can Help"
    Posted: 30 May 2007 at 4:02am
My commercial 45, which is stereo, has a listed time of (2:57), but an actual time of (3:00). Unfortunately, current "45 Version" notated CDs in the database all state running times of between (2:54) and (2:56).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Ireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2008 at 9:24pm
I just compared Jim's commercial 45 dub of "I Can Help" to Billy Swan's Best of CD on Epic/Legacy 65218, which contains the "LP version" according to the database. I found that the 45 runs much slower, but otherwise appears to be just an early fade of the LP. Based on the CD times in the database, it doesn't appear any of the discs containing the 45 length run at the correct 45 speed (and this speed difference accounts for why none of those CDs have a length of 3:00 like on the 45). That said, all CDs with the "45 version" comment should probably be amended to state "45 length but LP speed", while all CDs with "LP version" comments should be changed to read "LP length and speed".

Edited by Todd Ireland
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat Downey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2008 at 7:49am
The LP version of "I Can Help" fades before the audience applause while the 45 does contain audience applause at the end of the song hence my decision to call one a 45 version rather than length.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hykker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2008 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Pat Downey Pat Downey wrote:

The LP version of "I Can Help" fades before the audience applause while the 45 does contain audience applause at the end of the song hence my decision to call one a 45 version rather than length.


Not on my album. The 45 version ends at the first of several false endings contained on the album version, timing shown as 4:00.

Interesting discrepancy between the jacket and the label on my copy of this album. The cover lists it as being Monument 33279 (distributed by Columbia/Epic), but the record itself is Milestone 33279 (distributed by Fantasy). Perhaps distribution changed at some point, but there were old jackets leftover? I bought the album at a used record store so I don't know the history. It's the "I Can Help" album...cover art showing him in a wooded field behind a clawfoot bathtub with a swan in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Ireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2008 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Pat Downey Pat Downey wrote:

The LP version of "I Can Help" fades before the audience applause while the 45 does contain audience applause at the end of the song hence my decision to call one a 45 version rather than length.


In the past, I know there's been debate as to whether a situation like this one is an issue of "version" or "length". Of course, you have the final word on these matters, Pat, and I respect your decision. But do you agree that we also have a speed issue with "I Can Help" that probably warrants some kind of notation in the database?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edtop40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2008 at 8:17pm
my commercial 45 issued as monument 8621 states a run time on the label as 2:57 but actually runs 3:00........and thanks to john and paul's re-creation with the proper pitch alteration, another 45 quest bits the dust.....thanks boys!!!!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eriejwg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2008 at 10:29pm
Happy to oblige, Ed! Actually, my initial recreation without hearing the 45 ran 2:59. Listening to the 45 gave me a chance to give the Have a Nice Day copy I had the proper speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomDiehl1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 3:07am
Does anybody have an original promotional copy of this 45? Mine is a mono/stereo Re-Service and the mono side lists 2:57 and does run 3:00 as well (it seems to just be a fold-down of the stereo side). I'm curious to see how original promo pressings would've been labeled.
Live in stereo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 4:27am
Tom, like yours, my promo 45 copy also says "DJ Re-Service" on both sides. From my experience, the Columbia family of labels would sometimes add that comment onto a promo 45 label, usually for a big hit. I always thought that this was simply their way of indicating that a "second promo 45 copy pressing run" had been done, usually for a very popular song. Obviously, the bigger a hit is, the more radio spins it gets. Which means more 45 copies naturally get worn out, hence the need for/station requests made to the label for additional copies. And if/when the label's initial promo 45's pressing run's supply is exhausted, they would sometimes opt to do a second, "re-service" promo 45 pressing run, that's all. If not, they would also sometimes opt to instead send radio stations "stock" replacement 45 copies, with either a "Promotional Copy-Not For Sale" rubber stamp or sticker affixed to the 45 label. Tom, I picked up my "I Can Help" promo 45 copy used, and it has a "12/5/74" date written on the label in pen. Now, this song debuted back on 9/28/74, peaked in Nov., and was actually on the way down the charts by 12/5/74. My promo copy is styrene, which, for radio purposes, doesn't hold up 1/100th as well as a vinyl copy does. For the many stations still playing records on-air (and not carts) at this time, "cue-burn" of the first note of styrene 45 copies happened quickly. I'm sure Monument/Columbia were getting tons of radio requests for more 45 copies of the #1 hit, "I Can Help", as radio was playin' it heavy, and they were blowing through/cue-burning copy after copy of it. I just thought that the person wrote "12/5/74" on my promo so they knew when this particular 45 copy had been placed in the studio for airplay, not because it was a different mix or anything. My promo 45's stereo side deadwax is "AB ZS8-8621-3", while my stock 45, (which I bought as soon as it debuted on the chart) has deadwax of "AA ZS8 8621-3". Long story short, Tom, I believe that all "I Can Help" promo 45 copies, whether or not they state "Re-Service" on them, contain the exact same version.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hykker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2009 at 5:24pm
Apparently, my promo is a "first pressing" since there's no "reservice" notation on it. Matrix #s are the same as Jim's.

I didn't realize that CBS-distributed labels issued "special rush reservice" singles as late as 1974, I don't think I've ever seen one post-1970.
I do recall seeing some reserviced CBS 45s in special sleeves with "here's a fresh copy, thanks" printed on them in the mid-ish 70s.

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