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Todd Ireland View Drop Down
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Points: 23 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Ireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Dreamer" - Supertramp
    Posted: 25 November 2006 at 3:18pm
It is my understanding that the correct hit version of Supertramp's "Dreamer" is the "live" version found on the group's Paris CD, which has been issued in two pressings in the U.S. On the original Paris CD release from the '80s (A&M 750216702), the song is shown as having a run time of 3:29 in the database. Yet on the remastered 2002 CD release (A&M 069493350), "Dreamer" has a run time of 3:44. Am I correct that the difference in run time between the two CDs can be attributed to the track indexing on the remastered disc including longer audience applause after the song ends?

Also, according to Joel Whitburn's Pop Annual 1955-1999 book, the commercial 45 run time for "Dreamer" is 3:15. Is this timing accurate? If not, how long does the 45 actually run?
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Paul C View Drop Down
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Points: 10 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2006 at 3:50pm
The 1980 hit version is indeed the live version from the Paris album. My 45 runs 3:29.
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Todd Ireland View Drop Down
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Points: 23 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Ireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2006 at 3:57pm
Thanks, Paul. I don't have a copy of the original CD pressing of Supertramp's Paris on A&M 750216702. Even though "Dreamer" runs 3:29 on both the CD and the vinyl 45, am I correct in assuming that the audience applause fades out on the 45 but the applause segues into the next track on the CD?

Oh, by the way, Paul, what is the run time printed on the label of your "Dreamer" 45? Is it 3:15 as stated in Whitburn's book?
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edtop40 View Drop Down
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Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edtop40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2006 at 4:13pm
yes...the 45 version is just a fade of the version from "paris" and it runs 3:34...
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Points: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat Downey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2006 at 7:18am
Yes Todd, the difference in timing between the original issue Of "Paris" and the remastered edition is strictly due to the indexing of the audience applause between tracks.
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Paul C View Drop Down
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Points: 10 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2006 at 1:31pm
I've just noticed that my 45 is actually a Canadian pressing, which may explain the difference in running time with Ed's 45. It was not unusual for Canadian and US pressings to be different, although it seemed to happen less often with A&M than with other labels. The printed running time on my 45 is 3:15.
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torcan View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote torcan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2006 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Paul C Paul C wrote:

It was not unusual for Canadian and US pressings to be different, although it seemed to happen less often with A&M than with other labels.


Don't really want to disagree, but in my findings probably at least 80% of Canadian 45s were the exact same as US 45s, especially when it comes to running time. I found that as running times grew longer in the late '80s, quite often Canadian 45s would carry the DJ-edit, where the US counterparts would be the full LP version. But for the most part they were interchangable.

One thing I used to do while in high school (and before I had enough money to buy as many 45s as I have now) is write down the listed running times for 45s from albums that I owned, and in checking them against Whitburn's "Pop Annual" books, most were the same.

Edited by torcan
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Todd Ireland View Drop Down
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Points: 23 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Ireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2006 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by Paul C Paul C wrote:

I've just noticed that my 45 is actually a Canadian pressing, which may explain the difference in running time with Ed's 45. It was not unusual for Canadian and US pressings to be different, although it seemed to happen less often with A&M than with other labels. The printed running time on my 45 is 3:15.


One other possibility for the discrepency in run times between your 45 and Ed's copy could possibly be a difference in turntable playback speed.
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edtop40 View Drop Down
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Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edtop40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2008 at 3:01pm
my commercial 45 issued as a&m 2269 states a run time on the label as 3:15 but actually runs 3:33....if you use the LIVE version of the song, NOT the studio version and fade in for 0:03 starting at the 0:02 mark and then fade out for 0:08 starting from 3:25 to 3:33 you'll be able to effectively replicate the true 45 version....









Edited by edtop40
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JL328 View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JL328 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2016 at 5:25am
I have a stupid question about songs from live albums....

How do we go about determining the time of the original vinyl LP version
of a song from a live album? I'm thinking of this song and also of songs
like "Ain't That a Shame" by Cheap Trick (which appears on CD with the
audience applause cut off at different points).

Here, "Dreamer" runs 3:29 on one CD version of "Paris" and 3:44 on a
later pressing. It's the same recording and there is no difference between
the pressings except where each track digitally starts and stops. On the
original vinyl LP, it was of course just a continuous concert recording with
nothing to discern the beginning or end of a track except, maybe, for
where the grooves in the album were.

Had this album been created in the CD era, I suppose there'd be an official
starting and stopping point for each track, but since this was originally on
vinyl and was only transferred to CD after the fact, is there an opinion on
whether the 3:29 version or the 3:44 version is the "correct" LP length? Or
is it accurate to say that there is no "correct" length of songs like this (as
long as it captures all of the notes/lyrics)?

Edited by JL328
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