Johnny Rivers-"Where Have All The..."

Jim, I just timed my commercial copy of "Where Have All The Flowers Gone" again and again I come up with a time of (3:02) not (2:58) as stated on the record label. Matrix number is IM-6127.

Pat, I appreciate the re-timing of your 45. Tom, my 45 is styrene, and the deadwax info is "IM-6127" (a dash is present), with a "triangle 58650" also appearing about three inches to the right. Pat, does your 45 also include the later deadwax info mine does, since our IM-6127 info looks to be identical? I just re-timed my 45 as well, and I again got (3:08). In fact, my 45's fade hasn't even started yet, at Pat's ending (3:02) mark! My re-timing is actually about 3:08 9/10th, and I could've easily gone with (3:09). I'm betting we have three different 45 pressing runs involved here, and that we've all timed our 45s exactly correctly - they're just all very slightly different animals, that's all. Thanks, guys!

Yah Shure wrote: Monarch pressing, styrene. Actual time is (3:03.3). The fade on this one is truncated very abruptly. Has the Monarch logo and "Ä58650" in addition to the IM-6127 matrix number in the deadwax.

John, if you just got a (3:03.3) timing on your 45 with the same etchings as mine, I am truly puzzled. Would you mind if I shot you out a dub of my 45 sometime soon (I'm a bit backed up), to compare/contrast with yours? My stopwatch has proven to be quite reliable in the past, but it could no doubt be suffering from metal fatigue/overuse by now! :)   

Edited by jimct

jimct wrote: John, if you just got a (3:03.3) timing on your 45 with the same etchings as mine, I am truly puzzled... My stopwatch has proven to be quite reliable in the past, but it could no doubt be suffering from metal fatigue/overuse by now! :)

Jim, your stopwatch will be relieved to know that it won't be headed for the dumpster anytime soon. Since Bill's Monarch copy matches mine, I'd say that your electric utility is not delivering all of the juice you're paying for. ;) I think we've just proven that Monarch cut more than one A-side plate for this record. Perhaps the first one was damaged before the press run was finished. That might explain why the same deadwax markings were used again. BTW, the numbers following the triangle symbol on Monarch pressings (which is also the Greek letter "delta") is typically referred to as the "delta number."

Bill, hey, if the shoe fits, why not? No demolition derbies, though! Once we get all of the timings for everything verified, we can move on to the sewing circles and book reviews. :)



Edited by Yah Shure

Tom, I just added links to scans of my two labels, but judging from your description of all of the "X"s on your styrene copy, it sure sounds like it's from Shelley Products on Long Island. On the Liberty and Imperial 45s I do have from Shelley Products, the type font is quite plain, thin and undistinguished, compared to that used on the Monarch labels. In addition, there is usually a raised "X" in the deadwax, as opposed to an "X" etched or stamped into the styrene.

Shelley's pressings were also notorious for having labels that did not adhere very well to the plastic. The lion's share of the Shelley-pressed used copies of The Wailers' "Tall Cool One" that I've ever seen have no labels left on them at all. In my experience, Shelley's styrene copies wore out even more quickly than other styrene pressings!

(Edited to add scan of The Hollies' "I'm Alive" from roughly the same vintage, pressed by Shelley Products. Notice most of the raised "X" to the northeast in the deadwax, the sloppily-applied label glue, and the blurry Imperial logo and "a subsidiary of..." printing. The labels on these pressings would often catch along the hole of the sleeve, sometimes pulling the entire label off. There are also several large bubbles in the label just to the right of the IR logo and then down. Mind you, this was the same pressing company that often printed the label copy on Amy/Mala/Bell 45s directly onto the plastic without using any paper label at all.)

Edited by Yah Shure