Mitchell Torok ’Caribbean’ - 1953 & 1959

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   Pat's absolutely correct that the Eric/Hit Parade CD version and the Abbott 45 version are the same version (but you need to increase the speed on the Eric CD 1.3% in order to get them to be the same speed/length.)  In addition, the Jamie Golden Hits 45 is the same version as the Eric and Abbott versions.  The Eric CD version is cleaned up considerably so you can hear the high end much better.  I don't think there are any overdubs.

I have now purchased the two Guyden 45s mentioned above to compare to the Jamie/Guyden Story import CD (the latter of which is clearly, as Pat stated, a different vocal take with some different instrumentation.)  I'll report further when I get the two Guyden 45s.

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satchdr Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 22 February 2007 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote satchdr Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 October 2009 at 8:49am
	Pat's absolutely correct that the Eric/Hit Parade CD version and the Abbott 45 version are the same version (but you need to increase the speed on the Eric CD 1.3% in order to get them to be the same speed/length.) In addition, the Jamie Golden Hits 45 is the same version as the Eric and Abbott versions. The Eric CD version is cleaned up considerably so you can hear the high end much better. I don't think there are any overdubs. I have now purchased the two Guyden 45s mentioned above to compare to the Jamie/Guyden Story import CD (the latter of which is clearly, as Pat stated, a different vocal take with some different instrumentation.) I'll report further when I get the two Guyden 45s.

Paul C Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 23 October 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote Paul C Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 October 2009 at 1:41pm
	My Guyden 45 has the deadwax "MT 1 -ARE" (with the 'RE' slightly elevated) and does not match the description of either of Robert's Guyden 45s. It matches Robert's description of his "MT-1" 45 except that it does NOT have the bongos/handclaps overdubs. It matches satchdr's description of his Abbott 45; that is, it is the Eric/Hit Parade CD version but faster. This means that there are at least THREE different Guyden 45 versions: - the same as the Abbott 45. [This is the version on the Eric/Hit Parade CD Fabulous 50s Crooners Sing Their Hard To Find Hits, except that it is slower on the CD. It appears at the correct speed on the Canadian CD that Santi Paradoa mentioned, Treasured Tunes, but the track is mastered from vinyl.] - the same take as the Abbott 45 but with additional overdubs. - a different take from the 1953 Abbott session. [I have this version on the ACE UK CD, The Golden Age Of American Popular Music: The Country Hits, which incorrectly describes it as the 1953 Abbott version.] To make things even more complicated, my Jamie/Guyden re-issue 45 has the same deadwax info as satchdr's re-issue 45, but it DOES have the overdubs. It now makes sense why so many usually reliable sources (Joel Whitburn, Eric/Hit Parade, ACE UK) seemed confused as to whether the 1959 Guyden release was the same as the 1953 Abbott release. Some 1959 Guyden pressings were the same and some were not.

satchdr Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 22 February 2007 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote satchdr Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 November 2009 at 11:25pm
	More information: One of the two Guyden Records 45s arrived today. It appears to be the same as the one described by Gary Mack and Yah Shure, has the "MT 1B-RE" deadwax but (to compound the difference among the various Guyden 45s described) the deadwax also contains the triangle symbol followed by "30410". It also has the "American Music Inc." credit and "(45-MT-1A)" under it on the left side of the label. This version is identical to the one found on "The Jamie-Guyden Story" Bear Family import CD I mentioned above but the CD has to be sped up 1.1% in order to match the speed of this 45 version which, as Gary stated, runs fast. It has a time of just over 2:24.

Paul C Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 23 October 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote Paul C Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 March 2012 at 2:30pm
	Pat, the database currently states that the only domestic CD featuring this song contains the 1953 version and not the 1959 version. We were able to conclude from the various contributions to this thread that some 1959 Guyden pressings are the same take as the 1953 Abbott pressings and some are a different take. My 1959 Guyden 45 is definitely the same version and length as the version on the lone database-listed CD.

edtop40 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 29 October 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote edtop40 Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 February 2014 at 10:25am
	my commercial 45 issued as guyden 2018 has 'MT-1' above 'Time 2:30' on the label......the actual run time is 2:28...i downloaded the version from the cd 'the mitchell torok collection: 1949-1960' issued on the acrobat label and they sound identical to me......
	edtop40

Randypny Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 15 July 2013 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Randypny Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 August 2014 at 12:17pm
	So, based on the above, is it safe to draw the following conclusions?: a) the version of "Caribbean" on the Hit Parade CD matches (except for the speed) the Abbott 45 and some pressings of the Guyden 45 b) the version on the Bear Family Jamie/Guyden Story CD matches the alternate take found on other pressings of the Guyden 45

smvceo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 13 December 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote smvceo Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 September 2014 at 8:13am
	My understanding of the two version of "Caribbean" is that both version were recorded during the same 1953 session, and that the Jamie/Guyden version is an alternate take, one of which has handclaps overdubbed. This is what we discovered during our research on which version to release. Since both the Abbott and Guyden issues charted, we went with the "harder to find" recording.