Re-Entry mysteries
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10063
Printed Date: 08 July 2025 at 5:53am
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Topic: Re-Entry mysteries
Posted By: hellogator
Subject: Re-Entry mysteries
Date Posted: 11 March 2024 at 7:47am
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I would like to solve some of the mysteries where titles
re-enter the chart or enter after a long delay. Some mysteries are easy to solve, such as the reason "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" was released about three years because it was included in a film. Also "The Twist" charted twice because two separate age groups became interested during different years. I can't figure out why Judy Collins "Send In The Clowns" hit the Top 40 twice. Or why Olivia Newton-John's "I Honestly Love You" barely missed the Top 40 in 1977. Any ideas about those two? I noticed another trend, especially in the 80's where a huge Top 40 hit single, such as "Every Breath You Take", Van Halen's "Jump", or "Dancing In The Dark" causes that artist's back catalog to re-enter the album chart. One other mystery I am trying to solve is the cause of seven Beatles albums to re-chart in March 1984. There weren't any Beatles songs in the Top 40 that month, and John Lennon's "Nobody Told Me" was released in January, not March. I was wondering if it was due to a Hall Of Fame Induction or a Grammys Lifetime Achievement. Does anyone happen to know? |
Replies:
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 11 March 2024 at 8:04am
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"I Honestly Love You" seems to have been reissued in 1977, since it has a different catalog # from the 1974 release. No idea why, maybe
featured in a movie? Maybe Paul H. can shed some light on this...was a catalog single (ie-not one that was being re-worked by the label) eligible for re-charting in those days or did it have to be a currently issued 45? Today anything goes, but I'd thought things were more structured in the old days. One you didn't mention was "Light My Fire"'s recharting in 1968, doubly odd since "Hello I Love You" was current then. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 11 March 2024 at 9:21am
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"Send In The Clowns" was reissued due to the release of the film version of the Broadway musical "A Little Night Music."
"I Honestly Love You" was reissued to help promote Oliva's first Greatest Hits album on MCA. The Beatles albums charted in 1984 because Capitol did a huge publicity push for the band's 20th Anniversary of landing in America. |
Posted By: FrankG
Date Posted: 11 March 2024 at 12:39pm
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In addition to what Paul wrote below, I believe that
Elektra re-released "Send In The Clowns" because it was also featured on Judy's 1977 compilation LP, "So Early In The Spring: The First Fifteen Years". The LP charted on 8/6/77, the single re-charted on 9/24/77, and the movie version of "A Little Night Music" opened in theaters on 9/30/77. It was a case of good luck and timing in cross- marketing. As far as I can tell, the movie was not a hit. It has a rating of 17 on Rotten Tomatoes. ;-)
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Paul Haney wrote:Posted By: thecdguy
Date Posted: 11 March 2024 at 5:08pm
I was under the impression it was to see how it would compete against the Jose Feliciano version which was on the charts at the time. Kind of like how the original '67 version of Bobbie Gentry's "Ode To Billy Joe" re-charted in 1976 alongside the newly recorded version. ------------- Dan In Philly |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 12 March 2024 at 4:03am
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As far as reissues go, in the "old days" as long as a single was getting reported by stores and radio stations as a "current" it was
eligible to chart and didn't necessarily need to be on a new label and/or catalog number (though many often were). Labels had a much tighter control on those things back then and it was a rarity when it actually happened. Nowadays, any song can come back on the charts at any time if it gets enough streaming points to chart in the Top 50 of any given week. All you need to do is look at the Hot 100 any given December to see that happen with all the old Christmas songs. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 12 March 2024 at 5:21am
You're probably right though it seems odd that Elektra would re-issue it given that it was only a year old, and the Doors already had a song on the charts. Doubt it got any airplay (other than as an oldie), but I suppose some bought it who'd missed it first time around. Not many record stores stocked oldies back then, so if you didn't get a song while it was on the charts you were outta luck. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 12 March 2024 at 8:40am
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Speaking of "Send In The Clowns", can anyone point to the
first place & time the alternate lyric version (with a 'Send in the clowns replacing 'there ought to be clowns') was released either promotionally or commercially? Thanks! Andy |
Posted By: Scanner
Date Posted: 13 March 2024 at 5:38pm
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The mystery to me of re-entries is how they are treated by
Record Research. My first Hot 100 book (1993) listed "I Honestly Love You" twice. Although the 1974 and 1977 recordings were identical, the records were not - 1974's was the second single from Olivia's "If You Love Me Let Me Know" album and 1977's was the first and only single from her "Greatest Hits." (Both records also had different B-sides.) Later editions combined both chart runs and listed "Honestly" only once on its original chart entry in 1974. Fast forward nearly three decades to Tim McGraw's "Live Like You Were Dying." Record Research lists the song twice for its original chart run in 2004 and subsequent re-entry for three weeks in 2005. Unlike the Hot 100 in Olivia's heyday which charted records, the Hot 100 in the 21st Century has instead been charting songs. Even if the 2005 version of McGraw's song differed from the 2004 version, Billboard counts all versions of a song as one - how else did "Old Town Road" clock 19 weeks at #1? So, how does Record Research determine how many times to report a song which has been re-released or simply re- charts due to a resurgence (e.g. artist's passing; placement in a commercial, TV show, film, etc.)? |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 14 March 2024 at 5:25am
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Scanner makes a good point. I would consider if a song drops out of the Hot 100, then re-enters within a short amount of time then it should
be considered part of the same chart run. A re-entry a year or more later does not IMHO. Certainly not in the case of the ONJ song, where the 1977 re-entry 45 had a different catalog #. What was BB's policy on charted weeks in these circumstances? |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 14 March 2024 at 6:24am
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Just to clarify, in our most recent edition(s) of Top Pop Singles, "I Honestly Love You" is in fact shown as two separate entries.
Joel used to go around and around on this subject. When I first started at Record Research in 1992, he thought that a song had to be off the chart for at least six months before it was considered a new entry. Then he changed it to a year, then back to six months, then back to a year, etc. I always thought that being off for at least a year made the most sense. As the years went by, the way the Hot 100 is compiled makes it easier for old songs to come back for whatever reason, be it an artist's passing, a viral video, a seasonal re-entry, whatever. The Christmas songs have been the biggest issue and for the Top Pop Singles, instead of counting them as separate "hits" we lump them together with the chart info in trivia, but for the upcoming Pop Annual they'll be shown separately in each year. Another sticky situation in recent years is when a song that's been out for a while suddenly gets a remix or a guest artist added to it. Billboard lumps all of the versions together and credits the one with the most points in any given week (which means the credits can change from week to week). We usually handle these with a trivia note as they are a different animal than the straight reissues. |
Posted By: rnell
Date Posted: 14 March 2024 at 7:17am
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Paul, I wonder what you usually do with Christmas re-entrys
when a Christmas song has the highest position of the Season on the early January chart instead of the late December one (depending on closing date of the charts changing each year). For example Beach Boys Little Saint Nick achieved its highest position this last Christmas on the January 6th chart (#25). How would this song appear in your tabulation for 2024 (for your Pop Annual book) if next Christmas the song has a higher position than #25? Do you consider the whole Christmas period for a Christmas song instead of the individual year? Thanks |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 14 March 2024 at 7:34am
We always consider the Christmas songs to peak in December, even if the actual dates fall to early January. |
Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 14 March 2024 at 1:48pm
If you're asking "how many Weeks On Chart were shown on the printed chart", then it all depends on the era. From approx the early '70s to the mid-late '80s, whenever a song re-entered, it always started over again at 1 - meaning the total weeks on the chart were not actually correct. (There were rare cases where they showed the combined total. "Baby Come To Me" is one of those cases, but they didn't do it for quite a while). Starting in the later part of the '80s, whenever a song re-entered they showed the total combined weeks - as long as it was the original recording or a remix. If it was a newly recorded version, then it started at "1". Same was true on the album chart but they started showing the combined weeks much earlier - around mid-1983. I think it all had to do with the Chart Director. The famous Bill Wardlow didn't seem to want to do it, but when Tom Noonan took over, that's when things started making more sense. |
Posted By: RoknRobnLoxley
Date Posted: 15 March 2024 at 7:45am
Excellent solution Paul, I very much like this eye deer !! I'm also interested in how 1969 and after flip sides will be treated in this new Pop Annual. Such as, "Come Together/Something" and "The Long And Winding Road/For You Blue" were both treated differently in the previous 1999 and 2011 Pop Annuals. With "For You Blue" even being absent from the annual part of the 2011 book, but was shown in the title index as a flip. (I would prefer that if both sides showed up together in a BB chart position, then that's how they would show up in the Pop Annual, but eye don't no nuthin'...) Thanks for all you do !! |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 16 March 2024 at 4:45am
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It looks like we're going to repeat the list of "tag along" B-sides that we printed in the 2016 version of the Pop Annual. It's
too late in the editing process to change our program. We want to have this book printed by June. |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 17 March 2024 at 4:15pm
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I think Twist and Shout by the Beatles re-charted in 1986 due to it being included in the movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off.... ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 18 March 2024 at 3:45am
Also the Rodney Dangerfield movie Back To School. |
Posted By: music4life75
Date Posted: 19 March 2024 at 4:21am
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MTV would play the Rodney Dangerfield version a lot. I bought it, but to
my surprise, it never charted. I think Rodney phoned this one in unlike “Rappin’ Rodney.” Also, whose idea was it to release “Surfin’ Bird” by Pee Wee Herman, as a single. Obviously, it was because of the movie “ Back To The Beach.” |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 19 March 2024 at 9:58am
| I actually purchased the 45 of Pee-Wee Herman's "Surfin' Bird" at the time. It even came with a picture sleeve! |
Posted By: Paul C
Date Posted: 25 March 2024 at 9:05am
I sold my copy about a year ago for CAN$23.00 (about US$17.00), which I'm pretty sure is the most I've ever sold a 1980s 45 for. In Canada the song reached #85 on the RPM chart (which combined sales and airplay) and #39 on the sales chart of The Record (which always had separate sales and airplay charts). |