The Future of Record Research
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
Forum Name: Chat Board
Forum Description: Chat away but please observe the chat board rules
URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10143
Printed Date: 27 April 2025 at 7:48am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: The Future of Record Research
Posted By: Scanner
Subject: The Future of Record Research
Date Posted: 25 November 2024 at 4:43pm
Since Paul is no longer posting about Record Research
here, I think it is time for long-time Record Research
devotees as many of us are to express to Paul and his RR
colleagues our concerns, hopes and suggestions for Joel's
collection and the future of RR. Although shared in
another post, I believe this best summarizes the current
situation:
https://forgottenhits60s.blogspot.com/2024/10/the-joel-
whitburn-collection.html
It would be practically criminal for Joel's music
collection not to wind up at the Library of Congress, Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame or some similar institution. The
historical significance of the music he collected is
simply undeniable and deserving of such preservation for
future generations.
As for the research, I hope Paul's "heart for the charts"
will help him evolve his research to other formats such as
on-demand print or digital publications sourced from a
comprehensive database that will encompass many of the
books and genres that have not been updated in several
years (e.g. AC, Christmas, Country albums). It may take
time to build this database especially for those books
that have never been updated or even published (e.g.
album books for Cashbox and Record World, Cashbox country
singles, R&R's charts other than Pop). If Billboard could
be trusted, I would even recommend sourcing publication to
them. But, with their website focused less on the charts
and more on advertising and cross promotion with other
sites owned by their parent, I doubt they could ever
produce chart data of the quality we have been spoiled by
from Record Research for over five decades. With
Billboard's clunky and advertising overwhelmed chart data,
I would also recommend seeing whether RR could develop its
own online subscription database where one could easily
research chart data for any artist. The data is already
licensed - its publication and distribution by RR would
need to be updated.
Please let Paul and RR know how you feel so that in some
way they will know how much their work has been
appreciated all these years and our hope that it will
continue in some way in the future.
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Replies:
Posted By: Chartman
Date Posted: 26 November 2024 at 6:32pm
Your url went nowhere. Did a quick search at the Forgotten
Hits site and came up with this.
https://forgottenhits60s.blogspot.com/search?
q=joel+whitburn+collection
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Posted By: Chartman
Date Posted: 26 November 2024 at 7:01pm
My first RR book was the 2nd edition of "Top Pop Singles"
- maybe back in 1973... had to save my paper route money
for it as it was fricking expensive! My last book was
2020's "Rock Tracks". During the preceding 5 years I
noticed that RR was headed downhill. Now when I keep
getting their "going out of business" - ah I mean the 45%
off - emails, just sounds like Paul's last post supported
company liquidation. Not sure how much input Paul
actually had. Joel did make some "interesting" decisions.
I have expressed my concern that Joel should have
concentrated more on his legacy in his later years.
Obviously the record collection is one of a kind and
beyond priceless. Somebody should buy the collection and
building for a gazillion dollars. Turn it into a museum.
To lose that collection would be a giant historical f*ck
up. RR should be devoted to its preservation.
RR is essentially a one book enterprise now (I just
consider the Annual a stepsister to the Pop Annual) and
likely has published it's last book. A variety of reasons
for that.
I have asked RR to make their research materials
available to the general public. American Radio History
would die for the early Music Vendor magazines and other
documents. Hell... they will even scan them for posterity
sakes. But I'm afraid they will be lost forever. That is
an avoidable outcome, so I can hope.
Joel's legacy should extend beyond the RR company. Kent
Kotal recognizes this but doesn't sound too optimistic.
: (
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Posted By: kingofskiffle
Date Posted: 27 November 2024 at 2:19am
If this is the end - and of course no end announcement has been made -
then it has been wonderful but an end is not entirely unexpected due to the
change in the landscape for both print books and this type of resource
given the rise of the internet. Go back even 10 years and print books where
the preferred method not just for us but also for much of the world for data
of the type RR produce. The UK chart market effectively stopped putting
out print books in about 2005 or so with a last gasp in 2009. There was a
print on demand return in 2019 but it’s a very different proposition today to
what it was.
As RR have said, print costs have gone up. The data is magnificent within
the books but the 2016 Albums book is huge. I would not cut any of it but it
is huge and that must cost a massive amount to print. Part of me hopes
they do pivot to a digital setup, maybe one with a subscription type model
so that they can guarantee money coming in but also provide a semi-
regular update a bit more easily. Given the slow nature of the charts - single
one week large artists aside - that might work.
If this is the end then I want to thank Paul for his work on the books and of
course we all would thank Joel for starting it all off and doing it so well - the
gold standard is, was and probably always will be the RR books.
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Posted By: Scanner
Date Posted: 06 December 2024 at 6:46pm
Not looking promising:
https://forgottenhits60s.blogspot.com/2024/11/joel-whitburn-
day.html
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Posted By: Chartman
Date Posted: 07 December 2024 at 4:05pm
Figured the company is history, but I urge Paul to contact David Gleason
and have him scan copies of the old music periodicals for historical
preservation. Particularly Music Vendor.
The music vault belongs in the Smithsonian but somehow I don’t believe the
Whitburn Estate has much interest in preserving Joel’s legacy.
Curious if Joel even considered what happens to his collection in case he
passes. We’ll probably never know.
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Posted By: Scanner
Date Posted: 08 December 2024 at 2:49pm
All of the periodicals belong in a library. I have been
to many music libraries including the best ones at the
Library of Congress in DC and the Lincoln Center library
in NYC, but neither has a complete collection from
Billboard, Cashbox, R&R or Record World. Some of their
collections are microfilm which does not age well. If they
are not going to continue to publish in any form, I wish
these would be donated to one of these libraries or, as
someone has suggested, scanned for a site like World Radio
History.
I am not certain how such donations would work. Would one
of these libraries pay for these collections? I imagine
Whitburn's heirs would want to monetize this "inheritance"
in some way. Joel must have spent $$$ buying and storing
all this music and magazines through the years. Unless
they have the same passion for music and the charts, I
doubt maintaining a legacy will be enough to justify the
cost to keep this going.
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Posted By: Scanner
Date Posted: 05 January 2025 at 3:50pm
The latest RR sale is for the most recent Pop Albums book.
I have two questions which I hope someone can answer:
* Does this include albums that bubbled under the
Billboard 200? Billboard published a Bubbling Under chart
from 1970 to 1985 for albums and I was hoping this data is
included in this book as it is for Pop Singles.
* Just how enormous is this book?!? The website shows
the book's width is only a quarter inch more than Pop
Singles 1955-1989. But, the Pop Albums book has nearly
twice as many pages as the Pop Singles 1955-1989 book (856
vs. 1,600)!
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Posted By: AutumnAarilyn
Date Posted: 05 January 2025 at 4:31pm
Yes, bubblers were included and as proof, I see Jerry
Garcia's Hotteroll? went to #201. On page 8, it states that
those charts gave 4 to 35 positions. It also includes an
alphabetical list of all of the songs on those albums with
their individual chart positions. That really adds to the
size of the book which is enormous.
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Posted By: Scanner
Date Posted: 05 January 2025 at 8:00pm
Thanks, Autumn. Do you (or anyone else!) have the Singles
book to compare the size of the Albums book to? I thought
that book was quite large. I can't imagine how much bigger
the Albums book must be if it has nearly twice as many
pages!
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Posted By: AutumnAarilyn
Date Posted: 05 January 2025 at 8:26pm
Pop singles is only 1200 pages but the albums book includes
a listing of all the songs on each album. Back then, that
info was not as available as it is today. Both books are
about the same thickness.
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Posted By: Chartman
Date Posted: 07 January 2025 at 10:50am
The Top Pop Albums book is about 1/8” thinner than the 1955-2018 Top Pop
Singles book. The pages in the albums book are much thinner - it’s quite
noticeable! That’s how 1600 pages can be thinner than 1200 pages.
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Posted By: Chartman
Date Posted: 07 January 2025 at 10:57am
I have both books. The albums book is 1/8” larger than the Top Pop Singles
Volume. 1 1955-1989. The pages in the latter are twice as thick!! 852 pages
almost equals 1602. You have to be careful when reading the albums book
because the pages are flimsy. That’s how they kept the size down.
Per the preface, the book contains 1970-1985 bubblers.
I would buy one while you can.
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Posted By: Jack45
Date Posted: 09 January 2025 at 7:30pm
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Chartman, did you mean to say that the Pop Annual is the stepsister of Top Pop Singles? I like the "stepsister" part.
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Posted By: Scanner
Date Posted: 08 February 2025 at 3:40pm
I just read in the Canadian chart books thread that Amazon
offers a print-on-demand service.
Hint, hint - Record Research!
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