CD mastering flaws/glitches
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131
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Topic: CD mastering flaws/glitches
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Subject: CD mastering flaws/glitches
Date Posted: 16 February 2005 at 1:16pm
|
I thought it might be a good idea to create a thread where people can post warnings about dropouts, distortion, truncated fades, and other flaws and deficiencies they've encountered on CD. Maybe Pat might even want to print some of them in his book to warn other readers. I have several here get the ball rolling:
Chic - Le Freak: On Mega Hits Dance Classics Volume 10 (Priority 7059), the song's pitch suddenly slows down at the 2:43 mark as though the tape source was dragging. John Parr - Naughty Naughty: On 18 Screamers from the 80's (JCI 3143) and 80's Rock Classics - Party Town (Simitar 55142), the sound quality is decent during the first 1:13 or so but then gradually becomes muffled as the song progresses. By the end of the song, the sound quality has degraded so badly that nearly all fidelity is lost! Obviously, a dreadfully inferior tape source was used here and anyone looking specifically for "Naughty Naughty" on CD should stay away from these discs. You can find the song in excellent, fully intact sound quality on John Parr (One Way 35176) and Greatest Hits of the 80's (Platinum A26823) (the latter title is not in Pat's book). Restless Heart - I'll Still Be Loving You: There's a dropout in the left channel at 3:25 on Country Music Classics Volume VII (K-Tel 3048). Sheriff - When I'm with You: There's a bad dropout in the left channel from 3:00-3:01 on Romantic Hits of the 80's (K-Tel 898). |
Replies:
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 16 February 2005 at 6:59pm
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Good idea, Todd.
Survivor - Eye Of The Tiger from the Rock Of The 80s CD (CBS 44363) has poor sound/fluttering in the right channel throughout the song from a bad tape. I'm not sure if other copies have the same problem. Brothers Johnson - Stomp! from Funk Classics - The 80s (Rebound 20365) has dropouts/fluttering in the right channel throughout the song from a bad tape. Dropout is most noticeable during the chorus. I've heard the same problem on at least one other compilation that has the 45 version. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 17 February 2005 at 9:07am
| Yes I will be interested in entries made on this thread and will enter appropriate information in my database for the next edition of Top 40 Music On CD. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 18 February 2005 at 2:53am
| The Police - Roxanne from Every Breath You Take: The Classics and Message In A Box: The Complete Recordings, the pitch starts slow and gradually speeds up from 0:00 to 0:03. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 19 February 2005 at 4:00pm
| Warren G & Nate Dogg - Regulate on Def Jam's Greatest Hits (36377) has a big digital "click" at 3:04. Does anyone else's copy do this? My CD is in mint condition, but if nobody else has this problem, then maybe it's just my disc. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 19 February 2005 at 4:05pm
| One more I just thought of...nearly half the tracks on Sly & The Family Stone Greatest Hits sound like they're out of phase. They seem to have corrected the problem (especially noticeable on "Everybody Is A Star") on The Essential compilation. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 19 February 2005 at 8:31pm
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This is a great thread for this board. There is a glitch on all CD copies of Melissa Manchester's "Don't Cry Out Loud" at 0:26 on the line "while she danced without a net upon the wire." It occurs during the word "she" -- there's a dropout such that the word "she" only appears on one channel. This is most noticeable on headphones.
I know why all the CDs are this way. They were mastered from the LP master, which also has the same exact glitch. What's most interesting is that the glitch does not occur on the 45, so all it would take to remedy the problem is to use the single master for CD, but NO ONE has ever done that. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 23 February 2005 at 12:39am
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Herb Alpert - This Guy's in Love with You: On Classics Volume 1 (A&M 2501) and Definitive Hits (A&M 069490886), the recording is very hissy. I'm guessing this is probably also the case with the song's other CD appearances.
Lita Ford - Kiss Me Deadly: On Platinum & Gold Collection (RCA/BMG Heritage 61120), the word "I" is clipped off the song's intro where the vocals begin cold. In other words, the first verse is: "Went to a party last Saturday night", instead of: "I went to a party last Saturday night". This CD was released after the 10th edition was published, so it will likely be included in the 11th edition. Michael McDonald - I Keep Forgettin' (Every Time You're Near): A low hum is noticeable throughout the song on Very Best of (Warner Archives/Rhino 76649). Elvis Presley - Loving You: This sounds very hissy on Elvis 2nd to None (RCA/BMG 55895). It may also be hissy on other CDs, but I haven't yet gotten around to checking any of these discs. The Troggs - Wild Thing; With a Girl Like You; I Can't Control Myself; and Love Is All Around: These songs all sound grungy and distorted on Best of (Fontana 314522841). Van Halen - Finish What Ya Started: On The Best of Both Worlds (Warner 78961), there appears to be some kind of fade-out glitch because the song ends very abruptly in mid-note instead of fading out. (At least, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to fade out... unless the ending is intended to be a comedic nod to the song's title, but I highly doubt it. If so, then the joke is on me!) This CD was released after the 10th edition was published, so it will likely be included in the 11th edition. |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 23 February 2005 at 3:58am
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I can set the record straight for you on Van Halen's
"Finish What Ya Started", Todd - you can blame Eddie & Alex for that one! (I have "The Best of Both Worlds" as well.) For folks interested in staying on top of which new CD releases are about to come out here in the U.S. each week (both current & re-issues), I highly recommended picking up a monthly magazine called "ice". (Visit their official web site at www.icemagazine.com.) Lately each issue has been 32 pages, and it has a cover price of $3.95. It's been publishing since 1987(!), and I've been buying it every month myself for 11 years now (and saved every one of 'em, too). The March, 2005, issue (#216) just hit stands within the last few days... At any rate, the magazine also has a regular column called "the cd watchdog". It provides a forum for readers to write in w/ their complaints about any new CD releases (which is the essence of this new thread that you started here on the chat board). If found to be true (or if they receive multiple complaints about the same CD), the magazine then contacts the record labels, producers, etc., in an attempt to get the scoop, and whether or not the problem(s) will be corrected on future pressings. Of course, VH being the immensely popular band that they are, many other fans also noticed the supposed "glitch" at the end of "Finish What Ya Started". Consequently, the magazine was evidently bombarded w/ questions about the mastering of the song on the "Best of Both Worlds" collection. I'll go ahead and re-type the magazine's detailed response to its readers in that column, as it appeared in the September issue (#210) from last year: To find out what happened, ICE contacted Rhino as this issue was closing, at the very end of July. The label had been working with producer Glen Ballard on a statement explaining that it wasn't a mistake at all, it was intentional. At the very last minute, Ballard submitted his explanation, which was passed on to ICE with just hours to spare, and which reads as follows: "There's a great irony associated with our choice to present 'Finish What Ya Started' in a way that belies the title. We retrieved the analog master from the WB vault only to learn that it needed to be treated, or 'cooked,' to restore its ability to be reproduced on the analog machine. "The original two-track mix ends exactly as presented on the new 'Best of Both Worlds.' In the first mastering of the record nearly 20 years ago, it was faded manually, and that is the way it appears on the original 'OU812.' We literally decided to let it 'Finish' in its truly original form, almost like a 'director's cut.' To the legions of Van Halen fans who remember it the other way, we can only hope that the added one second of music and its slightly truncated ending represents a unique version of a song that we all know and love, and becomes in its own right a collector's item. "We have spent hundreds of hours in conjunction with Ed and Alex [Van Halen] pondering the tone, texture and tenure of these amazing recordings, and we appreciate the responses from the many listeners who cherish this music. It has represented a sacred mission for all of us and we present it to you with love, respect and passion, and if you hear something you might have missed before, please realize it is included to present what we deem to be the more complete archive of this amazing band. Sincerely, Glen Ballard." I'm sure Pat will include some sort of note in the 11th edition next to this version of "Finish What Ya Started", but as you can see, it was definitely not a "glitch"... |
Posted By: Bob Lovely
Date Posted: 23 February 2005 at 7:22pm
Todd, the tape hiss you hear is simply a part of a vintage 1957 recording. Use of NR only serves to remove some musicality in addition to the tape hiss. This hiss is a bit less audible on the new Kevan Budd-mastered CD of Loving You.
These tracks were recorded this way. Mastering cannot change this. Bob ------------- Just give me the hits... |
Todd Ireland wrote:Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 23 February 2005 at 11:12pm
|
Bob:
I think the hiss on "Loving You" is a bit excessive even for a 1957 recording, but your points are well taken. In the future, I won't single out any Top 40 songs released prior to the early '70s for being "hissy" unless the problem is unique to one or several CDs. As for the Troggs, I honestly don't think their songs sound as poorly on most other discs I've heard as they do on Best of (Fontana 314522841). For instance, I think "Wild Thing" has noticeably less grunge and distortion on 45's on CD Volume 3 (Rebound 314520509). Also, have you heard the stereo remix of "Love Is All Around" on the recently released Dick Bartley Presents: Classic Oldies 1965-1969 (Eric 11525)? I think it sounds great actually! |
Posted By: SomeCallMeTim
Date Posted: 24 February 2005 at 11:05am
| The speed drop on "Le Freak" was present on my long-lost 45, too. Drove me crazy, because when I got the LP home, the much longer LP track sounded fine...UNTIL I used my very cutting-edge J.C. Penney cassette pause button to recreate the single version without the anomaly (sidenote - my parents used to yell at me to play a song all the way through or not at all - thought I was alone in the universe back then). Anyway, the SAME thing happened. Apparently, the beat slowed gradually during the session, and isn't noticeable during the very long bridge that was edited out for the 45. Atlantic's "correction" of this for their "Golden Age of Black Music" compilation makes the song after the edit sound sped-up, even though the meter remains consistant. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 26 February 2005 at 11:49am
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To 80smusicfreak:
I appreciate your detailed explanation of the bizarre "Finish What You Started" ending on Van Halen's Best of Both Worlds. I would have to disagree with Mr. Ballard's assertion though that the song ends "slightly truncated". In actuality, the song ends very abruptly in mid note and makes for what I think many would agree is an extremely jarring listening experience. To SomeCallMeTim: I had no idea that the speed drop was actually present on the original "Le Freak" commercial 45! Wow, so can it really be then that the Mega Hits Dance Classics Volume 10 CD contains the "true" 45 version of "Le Freak", while the CDs containing the "corrected" pitch do not? I wonder if Atlantic ever released a different pressing of the 45 with the "corrected" pitch? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 26 February 2005 at 12:04pm
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Vanity Fare - Early in the Morning: This sounds like it was mastered from vinyl on Super Hits of the 70's Volume 1 (Rhino 70921). The vinyl artifacts are most evident during the fade-out.
Speaking of which, I notice Pat lists all CD appearances of "Early in the Morning" as being the LP mix, which is in stereo. Am I correct in assuming the original 45 mix is in mono? Also, I believe all CD appearances containing 45 versions of Mama's and Papa's hits, such as "I Saw Her Again", "Words of Love", and "Creeque Alley", are mastered from vinyl. It's been widely reported that the singles master tapes were accidentally erased several decades ago and no longer exist. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 26 February 2005 at 12:56pm
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First, a point of clarification...
The low hum I initially reported on "I Keep Forgettin' (Every Time You're Near)" on Michael McDonald's Best of (Warner Archives/Rhino 76649) CD could be better described as a buzzing sound, possibly some sort of electrical "interference" from the mastering console. It seems to be coming more from the left channel and is more easily noticed through headphones. Second, regarding Aaron's report on "Roxanne"... My copy of the Police's Every Breath You Take: The Classics (A&M 314540380) has "Roxanne" start with a slower pitch during the first five seconds before it reaches normal speed. I also have the hybrid CD/SACD version of this disc released a couple years ago on A&M 93607, and the intro's pitch is "corrected". Have you checked the original 45 to see if the pitch starts slow on it? After reading SomeCallMeTim's claim that "Le Freak" has a pitch drop on the original 45, I can only assume anything is possible! |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 28 February 2005 at 6:10am
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regarding "Le Freak", I too have the original 45. I don't remember it slowing down, however. I will dig it out to determine if it indeed slows down as well. ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 07 March 2005 at 6:33am
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I dug out my original 45 of Le Freak (after having moved residence), and as I thought, it does not slow down. I remember first hearing the slow-down on that Priority disc and thinking it wasn't right. ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 07 March 2005 at 7:38am
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Here's another one:
Brotherhood of Man - United We Stand: This song has a truncated fade on Super Hits of the 70's Volume 2 (Rhino 70922). |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 07 March 2005 at 8:15am
Hmmm... I wonder if you and SomeCallMeTim might have different pressings of the 45? |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 07 March 2005 at 9:32pm
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i've listened to the 45 versus the version on the cd "mega hits vol 10" and they are identical.......... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 24 March 2005 at 9:45pm
| Toto - 99: On the Past to Present (1977-1990) (Columbia 45368) CD, the right channel's volume drops during the :25 to :27 mark. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 March 2005 at 4:12pm
| Does anyone else own the "remasterd" CD of Sports by Huey Lewis & The News? I don't own the previous pressing on CD (only have a vinyl copy), but the "remastered" CD sounds awful! It's very flat sounding...like someone turned the treble way down. Stay away from this remaster, unless you really need the live versions of a few of their hits. |
Posted By: singleman
Date Posted: 27 March 2005 at 10:05pm
| On my copy of the CD/SACD release of Bob Dylan's "Highway 61 Revisited", there is a slight dropout in "Like A Rolling Stone" at 0:23 (at least on the CD layer). Does anyone Know if this has been fixed? |
Posted By: JMD1961
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 4:25am
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On the discussion of "Le Freak"...
Don't have the 45 myself, but can say that the "slow down" also occurs on the Time-Life disc "AM Gold: #1 Hits of the '70s - '75-'79" And I also thought it sounded "off" when I heard it. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 24 April 2005 at 11:53pm
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First Generation - Virgin XXV Years (Virgin 46589) - Disc one chops off the first couple seconds of Human League's "Don't You Want Me" and the first snare hit on Simple Minds "Don't You (Forget About Me)."
Also, in the 8th Edition, there is an error for this disc on Phil Collins "In The Air Tonight." The book reads LP Version, when it should actually read Remix. This is the same mix that is on the 45, but it is not edited for length--it runs the same length as the LP Version. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 27 April 2005 at 10:19pm
| Duran Duran - Greatest Hits - "The Reflex" has the same "speed up" problem as mentioned earlier about "Le Freak." At 3:10, the pitch increases by about 2% until the end of the song. I suspect it's the same way on Decade but I don't have my CD readily available to check. Does anyone know if this is how it is on the 45? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 22 June 2005 at 1:00am
| Andy Gibb - Desire: The right channel sputters from the 1:01 to 1:02 points on the following CDs: Class Reunion 1980 (Rebound 314520318) and #1 Radio Hits 1980 - Only Rock 'n Roll - 1984 (JCI 3170). This song may contain this flaw on other budget various artist compilations as well. The sputtering does not occur, however, on the Andy Gibb CDs After Dark (Polydor 314539922) and Best of: 20th Century Masters - The Millennium Collection (Polydor 314589060). |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 27 June 2005 at 10:42pm
| Cameo - Candy on Billboard Hot R&B Hits 1987 has the first note cut off. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 June 2005 at 12:57am
| Starship - Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now on Billboard Top Hits 1987 runs a little slower than other copies, and it sounds as if the pitch ever-so-slightly fluctuates...like a record that's not centered on the turntable. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 June 2005 at 1:13am
| Cheap Trick - The Flame on Billboard Top Hits 1988 has a pitch problem. It starts off slow for the first 6 or 7 seconds, and then it speeds up slightly until around the 10 second mark. There are other spots in the song (like in the chorus) where it sounds like it slows down a little again, and then back to normal. Probably a bad tape source. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 28 June 2005 at 10:56am
Like the Billboard Top Hits 1987 disc, there are six other CDs in the 10th edition where Starship's "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now" is shown with a 4:31 run time so I wonder if the pitch runs slower on these copies as well. Also, I notice the song runs 4:20 on the CD Heart of Rock (Columbia 44381). I don't have this CD, so I'm wondering if the shorter run time on this particular disc is the result of a faster pitch, an early fade, or both? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 29 June 2005 at 1:01am
| It's not mentioned in the book, but INXS's "Need You Tonight" on Time-Life's "Gold & Platinum Vol. 5" contains about half the first note of "Mediate" at the end of the song. Sounds awful... I can't believe that made it through. |
Posted By: Moderator
Date Posted: 29 June 2005 at 7:57pm
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Todd to answer your questions regarding "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now", yes all versions that appear on cd in the US that run 4:31 are too slow. I am glad you mentioned the cd "Heart Of Rock" because on that cd, the opening 5 drum beats are missing and it fades :08 early. Another cd that fades this song early is the Heartland cd #1073/4 which fades the song :05 early. ------------- Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 03 July 2005 at 11:14am
| Timex Social Club - Rumors - On Rhino's 80s Pop Culture Box and Billboard Hot R&B Hits 1986, there are lots of digital "clicks" throughout the song. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 12:00am
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Whitney Houston - Didn't We Almost Have It All - On the Greatest Hits CD, and on my TM Century library, this song sounds awful! The vocals are very distorted, and it sounds as if the tape was bad or like it was transfered from a bad vinyl source. It's noticable throughout the song, but it's really bad from the 3:30 point to the end...and especially at 4:08.
Does anyone know if the original Whitney album has this problem, too? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:56am
Aaron: I don't seem to hear any of these "clicks" on my copy of Rhino's '80s Pop Culture Box, but I definitely notice them on the Billboard Hot R&B Hits 1986 CD. On the latter, the loudest "pop" occurs at the :06 mark. The sound quality for "Rumors" on both CDs seems to lack the "punch" and presence one would expect from a master tape source, which got me to thinking that maybe the clicks, pops, and crackles occur because the song was lifted from a vinyl source (and perhaps cleaned up a little better on the Pop Culture box set). However, the fade out sounds a little too clean on both CDs to suggest vinyl was used here, unless the song was faded slightly early to avoid any extraneous noise. By the way, does anyone know if there's a DJ edit of "Rumors" with alternative or edited lyrics? There is a verse in particular on both the 45 and LP version I would consider, shall we say, a bit on the sexually explicit side. I have a hard time believing radio programmers would've allowed it to air, especially back in 1986 when Top 40 radio was much more conservative than it is today. Unfortunately, I don't have a clear recollection of how "Rumors" was presented on Top 40 radio, so does anybody have any insight on this? |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 17 July 2005 at 9:48am
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Van Halen "i'll wait" cd sgl issued on backtraxx has the beginning left and right reversed compared to the 45 version..........anyone else notice this??? ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 18 July 2005 at 1:53am
You're right about the sound quality, Todd. It sucks on these discs! Is there a CD that has a good sounding copy of this track, or do they all sound flat with no "punch"? In regards to the clicks, these aren't the typical clicks that you'd hear from vinyl. For one, they sound a bit different; and two, on my Cool Edit Pro program, I can zoom way in to see what the clicks look like, and they don't look like clicks you'd find on vinyl. (This gets a bit technical, but clicks that come from vinyl are usually represented by one "spike" on the waveform file. Digital clicks, as I call them, are typically longer and have a saw-tooth/zig-zag look to them. They also have a different sound than vinyl clicks. I'm guessing they occur from some sort of error in the digital transfer process, such as incomplete/missing data, although I can't say for sure.) |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 2:20pm
| Wham! - If You Were There: The Best Of... (Columbia 91200 - UK Import) - On the track "Freedom," from 0:15 to 0:36, in the right channel, it sounds as if someone was adjusting a fader and there was a short in the circuit. Although it's not constant, there are several spots where there is a "crackling" sound like you hear when the volume is shorted out. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 10:15pm
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Aaron K wrote: "Whitney Houston - Didn't We Almost Have It All - On the Greatest Hits CD, and on my TM Century library, this song sounds awful! The vocals are very distorted, and it sounds as if the tape was bad or like it was transfered from a bad vinyl source. It's noticable throughout the song, but it's really bad from the 3:30 point to the end...and especially at 4:08.
Does anyone know if the original Whitney album has this problem, too?> I have the original "Whitney" CD and it is also distorted on the vocal, much like the vocal distortion on Wendy Moten's "Come In Out of the Rain", which makes me cringe and want to bury my ears in molasses when I hear the vocal distortion on her great voice (and the great song that it is). Has anyone noticed the vocal distortion on "Come In Out of the Rain"? I can't believe the engineer let that happen. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 5:02pm
| Joan Jett & The Blackhearts - I Love Rock 'N Roll: On the CD Fit to Be Tied - Great Hits By (Blackheart/Mercury 314536440), there is a dropout in the left channel at the :10 mark. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 2:16am
| Jive Bunny & The Mastermixers - Swing The Mood (Radio Mix): On my DJ CD single, the first few drum beats are cut off, giving it an abrupt and odd start. Does anyone know if it's like this on 45 copies? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 08 August 2005 at 2:27pm
| Taylor Dayne - Tell It To My Heart on It's Only Rock & Roll 1985-1989: #1 Radio Hits has a problem with the pitch. By the end of the song, it has slowed down by 2 or 3%. The track is the same way on a compilation called Everything 80's, which was a 2-cd set by Razor & Tie that was only available by mail order. I don't own any other CDs with this song to see whether or not all copies are like this. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 7:53am
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Aaron,
That's interesting about "Tell it to my Heart". Does it slowly down slowly (almost unnoticeably), or does it happen real obviously, like in steps? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 8:51am
| EdisonLite, it's a gradual slow down that starts at around 1:30 (it's not really noticeable at that point). By 2:30, you can tell it's slowed down a little. By the 3:00, it's sounding obviously slow, and at 3:30 Taylor's voice is deeper than it should be. If you're playing the ending of the song, and then you cue back to the beginning, you'll be able to tell instantly if your copy has a problem. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 19 August 2005 at 9:49am
Hey Todd, my local Top 40 station and the college station that I worked at had no problems with the "questionable" lyrics. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 07 September 2005 at 2:02pm
Aaron: I have "Tell It to My Heart" on Taylor Dayne's Greatest Hits CD (Arista 18774) and it sounds fine. The pitch is consistent throughout the entire song. It appears the song was mastered from a bad tape source on the particular CD releases you cite.
Paul: Just to make sure we're on the same page, I'm referring to the verse involving "juice". I still have a hard time imagining this ever getting past radio programmers. Then again, maybe I'm the one with a dirty mind! |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 07 September 2005 at 2:45pm
|
Todd:
Yes, we're on the same "juice" page here. The mass comm professor who ran our college radio station was a real stickler for anything offensive and he never said anything about it. I think that it's one of those double-meanings that's just clever enough to skate by the cenors. |
Posted By: mediaace
Date Posted: 14 September 2005 at 4:22pm
The Mamas & Papas 45 masters for those 3 songs were moved to the mono album master reels for Dunhill D50025, the mono pressing of Farewell to the First Golden Era. The stereo LP (Dunhill DS50025)used the stereo album masters, which are different mixes. During the early 1970s, after ABC had obtained Dot and several other labels, some executive made the decision to junk all the mono album masters, and those 3 single masters went into the trash with the rest of the mono LP masters. ------------- Tom Daly Skyline Mastering & Video http://www.skylinemastering.com |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 7:03am
| True, but mono dubs do exist for at least some of them. For example, Monday Monday and California Dreamin' are both in mono from tape sources on the Roulette's mid-eighties "Original Rock N Roll Hits of the 60s" series, both sounding pretty good, to my ears. It is possible, maybe even likely, that mono cutting masters exist for these songs in other countries. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 8:01am
|
Not to change the subject, but isn't there a glitch in both the newly-found 45 and well-established LP version of Michael Jackson's "Wanna Be Startin' Something?" Almost like a little squeak towards the end of the song. Or was that present on the original vinyl?
Doug |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:51am
| What do you mean by "newly-found 45," Doug? (And welcome to the board.) |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:57am
| duplicate post |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 10:59am
Well, I don't have the 45, Aaron, but I just recently acquired the original Japanese CD3 single. I think the opening drumbeats you're referring to are there, but I'm not sure if it's the Radio Mix... no info about what mix it is. It runs 4:04, with the second track being "Glenn Miller Medley." |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 11:28am
By that I meant that the 45 version was finally made available on a domestic CD recently (or as I called it, newly), as opposed to the LP version which has been available on CD since "Thriller"'s release. Perhaps a poor choice of verbiage on my part. But that's what I meant. EDIT: Sorry--when I accessed this site last night for the first time the reviews page didn't come up, so I hadn't seen that the version of "Wanna Be Startin' Something" on the Essential CD was not the actual 45 version but an edit of the LP version. My bad. And thanks for the welcome. I'll get the hang of this one of these days. :) Doug |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:07pm
| duplicate post... been on jury duty and working full time... |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:07pm
ARRGH! See, that's what those schmucks at Sony have done now! Everyone and their mother is now going to think these bogus edits are the single version!!! Even Pat thought they were the single versions when he first reviewed it! (Eventually, Doug, you may stumble across the Michael Jackson threads where we -- mainly ME -- are ranting about this.) But, yes, NONE of the edits on disc one are the true 45 edits -- they were newly edited for Essential Michael Jackson from the album versions. (Though with Rock With You and Don't Stop Till You Get Enough, they did match the originals satisfactorily.) The other edits on disc one are incorrect mixes. BTW, I don't think I ever updated everyone that I did hear back from someone involved in "Essential Michael Jackson." (I don't want to say who, as they called me on the phone, said he was calling personally, not in an offical Sony capacity.) Basically this person said that they didn't know who did these new LP edits, but that anything with Michael Jackson's camp involved a million people, and that the most recent remasters of his catalog were designated the default masters to be used in any future release of the material. This person also told me there were several people involved in mastering this CD, not just the engineer listed in the booklet. But they did forward my letter to Sony A&R to let them know there were "mix issues" with the CD. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 7:11pm
And I'm fairly good at catching stuff like that (again, without a turntable I can't do what most of the rest of you can). There are a few more singles that I would like to try to replicate but don't quite know where the exact edit point is on some of them (I'll probably get around to asking about those eventually). Pat's books have been a godsend for me over the years. It's too bad I didn't stumble onto this site sooner (I got referred by someone on the New York Radio Message Board, which makes perfect sense for someone from Chicago :) ). I had a few conversations with him in the mid-1990s (if it's any help in him trying to place me, again, I'm from suburban Chicago). Sorry to veer off the point of this thread. And yes, they did a great job with replicating the 45 of "Rock With You" (even downloaded it off of iTunes, thinking it was the actual 45 edit). But I feel your frustration, Brian. Doug |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 16 September 2005 at 9:05pm
| Well, as far as I can tell Rock With You IS the 45 edit. There's no difference I can tell... it's just I suspect they created it from the remixed LP length version as well... which doesn't matter in this case, since it does seem to match. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 08 November 2005 at 9:05am
|
I think I might have found another mastering glitch. There's a pitch problem on the opening bass line of Tommy James' "Draggin' The Line" on Rhino's Billboard's Top R&R Hits 1971 (it's one half step slow then reverts to the right pitch for the second bass line). The version on Rhino's Have A Nice Day, Volume 5 has the correct pitch from the get go. I seem to recall at least one other CD with that same pitch issue, but it escapes me at this time.
<SOAPBOX> Shame no one has ever saw fit to put the 45 mix on CD. <end/SOAPBOX> ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 12 November 2005 at 3:05pm
| April Wine - You Could Have Been a Lady: On the Dick Bartley Presents Collector's Essentials: The '70s CD (Varese Sarabande 5706), the song's ending is severely truncated. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 30 November 2005 at 9:01pm
|
Cyndi Lauper "What's Going On" (Long Version)
Never before on CD, this version was included on a Cyndi compilation called "Hey Now (Remixes & Rarities), released earlier this year. Unfortunately, all through the "What's Going On" track there is a constant loss and gain of treble, at times both channels suffer the problem, and others, the loss of highs fluctuates between channels. A real shame, it's evident not much effort or attention was put into this project. Big disappointment, SONY/BMG. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 01 December 2005 at 10:02am
| I'm not sure if there's a difference between the "long version" and "club version" but I have a Japanese import called Best Remixes that has the "Club Version" of Cyndi's "What's Going On." I'll have to check the run time and see if there's a mastering problem present. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 01 December 2005 at 10:20am
|
Hi Aaron!
They are different mixes. The 12" single has three versions of WGO: Club Version, Long Version and Instrumental. The Club Version was later released on compact disc on two formats that I can remember right now. The "Best Remixes" Japan CD you have, and I also have it on the "I Drove All Night" UK picture disc CD single. The Long Version doesn't have an instrumental intro as the club version does, rather starts very much like the album and 7" mixes, almost acapella. If anybody's interested, I can send an mp3 file so you see the flaws. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 31 May 2006 at 3:25pm
| My copy of "Vehicle" by Ides Of March is from TM Century. At (2:50) right before the song ends, there is a tape dropout. Is this present on all stereo versions? There is no indication in the database. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 31 May 2006 at 4:04pm
I wouldn't consider tape hiss as a bad thing.
From what I recall from a previous ICE Q&A about this, the song was always supposed to end abruptly, but when the original LP/CD/tape was made, they faded it. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 31 May 2006 at 4:33pm
I agree with you to a point. Excessive tape hiss because someone used a 10th generation master is, in my opinion, undesirable. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 31 May 2006 at 6:04pm
| Using high generation tapes doe not really happen too much. Just have to accept that some tapes have hiss. Some have wuite a bit. but, it shouldn't be cleaned up to the point of messing with the music. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 31 May 2006 at 8:59pm
Pat occasionally will note if a song sounds very hissy or noisy on CD. Tape hiss isn't normally an issue with me, but on "This Guy's in Love with You" the hiss is rampant to the point of distraction, especially during the song's quieter passages. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 1:11am
| Jaggerz - The Rapper on Best Of Buddah sounds very muddy, as if the tape was not tracking properly through the machine when it was mastered. I'm hoping that other mono copies of this one sound better. Can anyone suggest a good source? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 1:29am
| Steppenwolf - Magic Carpet Ride from Dick Bartley's On The Radio vol. 1 compilation is mastered from vinyl, which should probably be noted in the database. Not only are there lots of clicks throughout, but the sound is very muddy with no high end; sounds like it was dubbed from AM radio. It was interesting to hear what the 45 version sounds like with the alternate vocal take. |
Posted By: Gary Mack
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 5:35am
Believe it or not, that IS the way the original Dunhill 45 sounded. Our radio station complained to Dunhill and were told that that's the tape they received! I think the later Dunhill/ABC oldies series included the single mix with the upper mids boosted a little. Weird. What WAS Steppenwolf thinking? GM |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 07 June 2006 at 12:33am
Is this the same version that has those weird sound effects and echo midway through the song?? My stock and promo 45s were both identical mono mixes that just had a light echo throughout the entire song, not weird loud echo and sound effects at one part.... ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: Tim Lyman
Date Posted: 07 June 2006 at 7:21pm
|
I have three CDs with the 45 edit of "Dance With Me" by Orleans. On both Super Hits of the '70s: Have a Nice Day Vol. 17 (Rhino R2 71197) and Only Love 1975 - 1979 (JCI JCD-3146), there is some kind of distortion present on the right stereo channel for the duration of the song. This distortion is more noticeable when listening to the song through headphones.
On Dance With Me: The Best of Orleans (Rhino R2 72848), this distortion is not present. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:07pm
Yes, that's correct, Tom. At about 1:47 and again at 1:56, there's an echo that gradually gets louder (sounds like someone potted the reel to reel up on the board while it was recording, causing a feedback loop). I take it this is not on the promo and stock 45s? I suppose the comment in the database should be "neither" if this is the case. Either way, I've listened to this track on the Buddah Box as well, and it's the same one. Sounds muddy and crappy, like the tape wasn't tracking through the machine properly. The first note sounds good (just as the play button was pressed on the machine), and then it gets muddy right away. It also sounds like it's phasing, especially on the chorus. If you listen to the stereo mix by contrast, it's a night and day difference. The stereo mix sounds fantastic! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 04 March 2007 at 2:25pm
|
Tim Lyman writes:
<I have three CDs with the 45 edit of "Dance With Me" by Orleans. On both Super Hits of the '70s: Have a Nice Day Vol. 17 (Rhino R2 71197) and Only Love 1975 - 1979 (JCI JCD-3146), there is some kind of distortion present on the right stereo channel for the duration of the song. This distortion is more noticeable when listening to the song through headphones. On Dance With Me: The Best of Orleans (Rhino R2 72848), this distortion is not present. > I'm listening to the Rhino version on headphones and don't hear any distortion. Can you elaborate on what you hear? Maybe some CDs have it and some don't. (I bought this when it first came out). I also looked at the WAV file and there are no places where it peaked out. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 May 2007 at 7:46pm
| Percy Sledge - When A Man Loves A Woman on the Atlantic 50 Years 2-CD set starts off slow for the first second, and then it speeds up to normal pitch. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 21 December 2007 at 3:00am
| Allman Brothers Band - Crazy Love on Decade of Hits..., the first note is partially clipped off. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 1:12pm
|
I think we can now add "Abacab" from Genesis' Turn It On Again - The Hits to the till. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 2:02pm
What do you mean by that, Doug? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 3:26pm
In another thread, it was discovered that the tape slips near the end of the song on this disc. It sounds kind of like when you press the pause button half way on a cassette player for a half second. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 3:54pm
| Or, perhaps a crinkle in the master tape at that point. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 5:56pm
|
Either of those answers are plausible. The glitch, Todd, occurs at around (3:25). ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 10:57pm
A tape crinkle would typically result a dropout, wouldn't it? The reason I figured "slip" is because it sounds like the speed/pitch drastically changes for a split second. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 2:41am
|
Been many years since I worked with reel-to-reel tapes, but my experience was if there was a crinkle, it could result in the sound of a glitch. Or, if the tape was slightly stretched at that point, it could cause an issue.
Regardless, not familiar with the whole sound mastering process, but why would an engineer let a song go out that way? Are they on a timetable? Wouldn't they make notations that there was an problem with a song? In radio, if we had a dub in from another station for a commercial on reel that had a problem, we'd call the station and ask for another dub. |
Posted By: jrjr
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 10:21am
| Beatles - Eleanor Rigby has one noticed that at about :14 seconds into the song, mceartney's vocal starts double-tracked for a split second on "el", and then just jumps to one channel??? i have heard this on the beatles "#1's" and the UK "Revolver"... mastering glitch or mixing error? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 10:10pm
| I've always wondered about "Eleanor Rigby," but I figured that might have been how the original stereo LP was mixed. Did this mixing error not show up until CD releases? It's also on the US version of the Revolver CD. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 1:13am
|
Frankie Avalon - Venus
On the 25 All-Time Greatest Hits cd on Varese Vintage from 2002, at 2:13 into the track, what sounds like a small mastering error can be heard, i'm not really sure what to call it, a small hiccup or something, there is just a small noise right at 2:13 for a split second, i'm not sure how something like that could've gotten into the track...this was only brought to my attention recently, i've owned this cd for 3 and a half years and this was the first time i ever caught this error... (I gave this cd a solid 5 star rating on amazon.com, had i heard this glitch at the time that would've bunked it down to 4 stars, i think... but i wouldn't change it now, as i still think it's an otherwise top notch cd). ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: Gary Mack
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 6:10am
Yes, all US Capitol stereo LPs of the 60s and 70s have that problem. GM |
Posted By: MCT1
Date Posted: 22 May 2008 at 9:26pm
I think this is a mixing error. It's my understanding that it is on the original master tape of the song made by EMI, and appears on all stereo releases of the song worldwide. The section that precedes this has double tracking, but it was supposed to be turned off before the song goes into that verse. The switch was apparently flipped a little late. To my ears, when the double tracking re-appears around 0:32, it sounds like it's a split second late coming back in -- not as obvious of a problem as at 0:14, but still not quite right. Any time the double-tracking comes on or off in the remainder of the song, it is done much more cleanly. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 17 October 2008 at 1:18am
I just also listened to a copy of Whitney, and again, I'm hearing these same distortion problems. I can't tell if it's overmodulation or bad tape on just the vocal track. The music track sounds okay, though, so it would've been a problem with the multi-track tape before the mix down. On the full version, listen to the last two repeated lines "didn't we almost have it all." The quality is quite bad, IMO. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 27 January 2009 at 5:17pm
| Johnny Nash - Stir It Up: The hit 45 version on the Sounds Of The Seventies - 1973: Take Two CD (Time-Life SOD-14) contains a dropout in the left channel at the :04 mark. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 27 January 2009 at 6:38pm
|
Todd:
Is there a way to repair the dropout in Audition? reason being, it's the lone CD appearance of the hit 45 version. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 27 January 2009 at 6:48pm
|
John:
I've taken the audio in the right channel at the precise spot where the dropout occurs and pasted it into the left channel. It works pretty well here and certainly sounds a lot better. I can e-mail you a copy of it if you wish. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 27 January 2009 at 7:17pm
| Tremendous tip, Todd! I did the same and it's a seamless match! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 28 January 2009 at 2:08am
| Really, Todd & Erie? I tried doing the same exact thing in that spot about two years ago (it's a trick I do a lot in spots like these) but it didn't seem seamless at all! The song becomes mono for about a whole second and then goes back to stereo and that sounds really weird, especially when listening on headphones! Can either of your send me an mp3 of what you did? |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 28 January 2009 at 7:41am
| Gordon, sent your way. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 28 January 2009 at 7:55am
| You're right, Gordon. It does go 'mono' for a second. But, as Todd mentioned, sounds better than the dropout. I may need to tweak my edit a bit. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 28 January 2009 at 1:19pm
| I simply copied the right channel from the 0:04.640 to the 0:04.951 marks and pasted it over those exact same points on the left channel. It masks the bad dropout and I detect no "mono effect" since the pasted section only lasts for about 0.3 seconds. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 January 2009 at 8:15pm
| Is this a problem only with the CD copy, or does the 45 have the dropout, too? |