starship "we built this city"
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Topic: starship "we built this city"
Posted By: edtop40
Subject: starship "we built this city"
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 10:05am
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pat
do any of the cd version contain the true 45 version?? the commercial 45 version starts with a very slight inhale breath before the vocals "we built this city".....the version i have from the omigod box set edits out/off this breathe....can you check to see if any of the cd versions in the db contain this breathe.....thx edtop40 ------------- edtop40 |
Replies:
Posted By: Paul Esch
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 11:24am
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The version on Time-Life's Sounds of the Eighties-1985 doesn't
have the split-second breath either. The original 45 sounds as though it was a bad edit in the middle of the breath; I don't know how the original LP version starts. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 2:31pm
| The version on Billboard Top Hits 1985 has the breath at the beginning. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 7:19pm
| Pulling the 53 cd's in the database that contain "We Built this City" to find a breath at the beginning is a very low priority item for me so I would say don't hold your "breath" waiting for the answer to this question. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 30 October 2006 at 7:09am
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pat...no problem on waiting awhile.....BUT.....this should be unearthed at some point, no?....we should be as thorough as possible..... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Paul C
Date Posted: 03 November 2006 at 6:45am
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I don't hear it on either the Platinum And Gold Collection CD or the Rhino Omigod! 80s box set. That's four CDs down; only 49 more to go.
There's definitely something at the start of the 45; but I'm not sure it's a breath, since it overlaps the start of the vocals. If it is a breath, I can loop it, put on headphones, and listen to Grace Slick breathing in my ear - which would fulfill a lifelong fantasy. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 03 November 2006 at 1:43pm
That's true, but don't forget that the opening chorus has Mickey Thomas singing the harmony. Technically, you'd have Grace and Mickey both breathing in your ear. |
Paul C wrote:Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 25 November 2006 at 4:39pm
| Ed, you will be happy to know that I went through all 53 cd's that contain "We Built This City" today and have updated the database with the results. I must disagree with Paul however as my copy of "Sounds Of The Eighties - 1985" does inclue the inhale breath. Perhaps there are two pressings of this cd? My matrix number is OPCD-2731-2 SRC*01 M1S6. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 25 November 2006 at 5:15pm
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i saw that...outstanding....you must have SOME filing system in which to be able to find all the cd's that quickly.....i can't find some of mine from time to time.....thank you... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Paul Esch
Date Posted: 26 November 2006 at 2:56pm
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There IS some kind of quick little sound in the split second before
the vocals on the version on Sounds Of The Eighties - 1985, but on the 45, it sounds more abrupt. On the Time-Life CD, it sounds as though the sound was smoothed a little. It's really almost too close for me to call. But, on closer examination, my matrix number is 10 OPCD 2731-2 SRC**01 M1S9. Hmmmmm! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 30 April 2012 at 9:09pm
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Nothing earth-shattering to report on, I think.
First, my commercial 45: Grunt FB-14170. I don't know what the "FB" prefix means, since it's usually "PB". Matrix number FB-14170-D-5S SLM 10410 1-1. The "D" is interesting to me, since it's usually "A" for the A-side of the single. The B-side, "Private Room (Instrumental)" has the B- in the matrix number. I don't know what the "A-" and "C-" would have been, although the promo 45 (early fade of LP b/w early of LP and no DJ rap) could probably offer clues. Printed 4:49, actual 4:51, runs at 144.1 BPM throughout. Interesting credit on label: "Remixed by Bill Bottrell"; Bill Bottrell produced Thomas Dolby's Aliens Ate My Buick album, the Toy Matinee album, and Sheryl Crow's Tuesday Night Music Club. There's about 0.2 seconds of something before the opening vocals, but it just sounds like a little tape noise to me, not a deliberate breath. I attribute its presence to a mastering error, since it's not on the LP version at all. Next, the LP version from the Knee Deep In The Hoopla that I ripped but no longer own. It runs 4:54, and also runs at 144.1 BPM throughout. The difference in length is due to the very tail of the fade being about 3 seconds longer on the LP. I don't have the LP credits anymore, but it would be interesting to see if it has a "remixed by" credit for this song. One disc that seems to use the same analog transfer as Knee Deep is Cema's Entertainment Weekly Presents Rock Archives Vol. 2 (1990). The first compilation the song appeared on is Warner Special Products' 2-CD Night Beat (1988), where it runs 4:52 and 144.0 BPM throughout. Razor & Tie's 2-CD Awesome '80s (1994) uses the same analog transfer as Night Beat, but sounds significantly better due to a much better EQ. Warner Special Products' 2-CD Rock This Way (1995) sounds extremely close to Awesome '80s. The next compilation is RCA's Nipper's Greatest Hits The '80s (1990), where it has a slightly shorter fade than the above discs, and runs at 144.3 BPM throughout. Priority's Eighties Greatest Rock Hits Vol. 3 Arena Rock (1992) uses the same analog transfer as Nipper, but it's mastered way too loud and clips a lot. RCA's Greatest Hits Ten Years And Change 1979-1991 (1991) starts with the first downbeat of the instrumentation and cuts off the entire intro. Too bad, because it sounds very nice here. EMI's 2-CD Now 1985 (1993) has an early fade, running only about 4:30. Finally, Bill Inglot did a fresh analog transfer for Billboard Top Hits 1985 (1994). It sounds good, but there's a small amount of tape drift. The song starts at 144.0 BPM and ends at 143.6 BPM. No normal person would be able to hear it, but now that I have the numbers in front of me, and I know that the 45 and LP versions don't have any drift, it kinda bugs me. It looks like whatever tapes Rhino used for the Starship tracks on their Billboard discs all have this slight tape drag at the end. On 1986, "Sara" starts at 99.7 BPM and ends at 99.5 BPM. On 1987, "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now" starts at 95.0 BPM and ends at 94.8 BPM. A few other CDs use the same analog transfer as Billboard Top Hits 1986, including Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 2 1985 (1994), Rhino's 7-CD Like Omigod set (2002), and Realm's 3-CD Greatest Hits Of The '80s Vol. 3 (2002). The 50-CD promo set The "A"-List is actually the no-DJ-rap version from the promo 45. I can't tell if it's taken from vinyl - I don't hear evidence of NR on the fade out and I don't hear any turntable rumble. For overall sound quality, I'd vote for Awesome '80s here. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 30 April 2012 at 9:55pm
Hold your calls, we have a winner! -A = no rap -C = early fade of LP RCA's use of -A, -B, -C and -D designations goes back at least as far as the multiple DJ 45 issues of Pure Prairie League's "Amie." |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 7:25am
Well, then what does -D mean? |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 9:51am
-A = no-rap DJ 45 (listed 4:17) -B = stock 45 B-side "Private Room (Instrumental)" (listed 4:54) -C = DJ 45 flip, early fade of LP (listed 4:17) -D = stock 45 "We Built This City" (listed 4:49) Clarification on the "Amie" DJ designations: they were -A, -C, -Y and -Z. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 10:29am
Shouldn't they have been -A, -M, -I and -E? :) |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 11:23am
In Quebec, for sure. :) Good one, Gordon! Apparently not too many frustrated comedy writers working in RCA's mastering lab... |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 03 May 2012 at 6:27pm
I just wanted to add that this CD is also the promo "no DJ rap" version, but with the intro missing. If one wants a digital version of the DJ 45, the intro can be spliced back on from another CD. Works quite well. MM |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 05 September 2024 at 10:44am
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Bumping this up, which has info about the “inhale” at the beginning. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 05 September 2024 at 11:38am
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To explain Aaron's thread bump: Due to a problem with the forum search engine, I didn't know this thread existed, so last night, I posted in another thread, trying to figure out what the database meant by an introductory inhale differentiating the 45 version. I'm moving my comments here.
I'm 100% with Ron on this. I have checked the 45 and a bunch of CDs mentioned in the database as containing the LP or 45 version, lined them all up in Audition, listened and zoomed in and out of the spectrograms, and they all have the exact same mix on them with minor mastering and tape-generation differences. Indeed, there's a ¼-second noise at the start of the 45, right before the "we" vocal, but it's some kind of studio noise, not a breath. Aside from tape speed and fadeout length variations, the only difference on the CDs is how much of the intro noise gets to play. The Knee Deep in the Hoopa album plays none of it, and the 45 plays all of it. Close comparison of several other CDs reveals that they usually just either cut that preface off completely, or they just quickly fade in the last part of it—sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more. And not to disparage Pat's heroic efforts checking his collection, but in the database, there doesn't seem to be consistency as to which discs are said to have the 45 version and which are said to have the LP version. As for the 45 saying "Remixed By Bill Bottrell", the album just says the track is "Mixed By" him, and it's a red herring. I think this is one of those times when the album ended up containing a remix and the original mix was shelved. So IMHO the database should be scrubbed of references to the commercial 45 version, unless I'm missing something. I would change the top note to just say that some CDs include part or all of a split-second studio noise which is audible at the very beginning of the 45 but not the LP. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 05 September 2024 at 11:50am
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I agree with Mike in this case. To me, the "45 version" designator causes more confusion than it helps, and a general note will suffice. I also agree that the "noise" is not a breath/inhale. On the Billboard Top Hits disc, this noise is exactly 0.139 seconds. It's so insignificant that I'd say it doesn't warrant a "version" designation. Unless there are objections, I can work on updating the database. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: C J Brown
Date Posted: 05 September 2024 at 4:15pm
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Does anyone know of a source for any or all of the various
"city" versions of this song? |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 05 September 2024 at 5:04pm
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Aaron, while you're in there, the "4:49" 45 runs 4:51, as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZEJRz9XmvM - a particular rip on YouTube in which you can see it's playing on a pitch-locked Audio Technica deck.
What are the thresholds for something being designated as "45 length"? As I mentioned, even after accounting for the very slight speed differences, the fade on this 45 still goes to silence 4 seconds before the CD album mastering. I don't know which, if any, CDs got the fade length exactly the same as the 45. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 05 September 2024 at 7:16pm
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I seem to remember a rule Pat would follow, but I don't recall the exact number of seconds. I believe that if the length difference is only 3 or 4 seconds (like in this case), there's no designation in the database. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 06 September 2024 at 4:35am
IIRC, it was dubbed " the 3 second rule." |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 08 September 2024 at 2:25pm
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Just to split hairs to the atomic level, after listening
to every CD I have that contains this song, plus the version from their "Knee Deep in the Hoopla" album, and then listening to every US 45 I could find on YouTube, here's what I've found: -The 45 version has the opening sound (whatever it is) and on the fadeout has 8 full repeats of "We built, we built this city," then starts a 9th repeat with "We built--" and then that's cut off and it's the end of the song. All CD versions that I have with the opening "breath" match that 45 fadeout exactly. -The LP version has no opening sound anomaly, as Ron said, and on the fadeout also has 8 full repeats of "We built, we built this city," but a little extra on the 9th repeat: it gets as far as "We built, we built this--" before it cuts off. This is true on every version I own that does NOT have the opening breath (except for Reader's Digest "Celebration: Today's Great Stars, Great Songs," and it's possible they might have just omitted that sound in the mastering). So, the LP version has 8 3/4 repeats of "We built, we built this city" on the fadeout, and the 45 only has 8 1/4 repeats, plus that opening sound. |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 21 July 2025 at 1:22pm
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The promo 45 A-side version (i.e. no intro and no "dj rap") is on the 1993 EU/AU Time-Life compilation https://www.discogs.com/master/1793641-Various-The-80s-Collection-1985" rel="nofollow - The 80's Collection: 1985 , also reissued in Europe in 2004. It runs 4:34, fading out after the end of the 8th repeat of "We built, we built this city". Is this how the promo 45 A-side ends? |
Posted By: charlie
Date Posted: 22 July 2025 at 6:09pm
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Has anyone compiled a list of all the custom versions that mentioned a certain cities call letters? Was this apaid promotion or just a random thing cooked up by record pushers and label promoters?
|
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 22 July 2025 at 9:18pm
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As far as I can recall, all the versions mentioning real call letters were put together by the stations themselves, all based on the no-DJ-rap version of the song. I don't think anyone's attempted to compile all of these in one place, or even make a list of them. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 22 July 2025 at 9:39pm
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I worked at K104 (WCCK-FM) in Erie PA in 1985 and we did our own custom drop-ins using the promo version. I wish I had a copy of the Erie version, but thousand of stations across the country most likely did their own custom versions. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 22 July 2025 at 9:40pm
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The European Time-Life disc has mastering based on RCA's Starship collection Greatest Hits Ten Years And Change 1979-1991 (1991), but has a compressed dynamic range and fades a little bit earlier. Greatest Hits Ten Years And Change 1979-1991 is much better for the no-intro no-DJ-rap version. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 23 July 2025 at 6:41am
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Was the no-intro no-DJ-rap version ever released promotionally when the song was climbing the charts? Or was it a later version? Andy |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 23 July 2025 at 6:49am
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My promo 45 has the "no dj" version on one side, and the version with the dj on the other. There is no designation on the label as to which side is which. I also have a promo 12" that is clearly noted as being the "no dj" version. |
Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 23 July 2025 at 8:48am
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Does anybody remember ever hearing the "no-DJ rap" version on the air? The station I listened to (WBEN-FM) had just changed off of automation the year before, so sometimes there were variations on what they played. Most of the time they played the regular 45 version with the DJ rap, but after it had been out a while I remember hearing the no-DJ rap version a few times on that station. I was surprised at the time because I didn't know of its existence. I later sought out the promo 45 and 12-inch single that contained this version. |
Posted By: 995wlol
Date Posted: 23 July 2025 at 3:00pm
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I remember hearing multiple versions on WLOL Minneapolis during the original chart run. The majority of the time it was the pre-recorded custom station version that used clips from the morning team's daily sign-off "don't drink and drive, call your mom..." The one I taped off the radio, though, was the evening jock doing a (presumably) live drop over the no DJ version saying "heyyyyy Twin Citiiiiieeees". |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 23 July 2025 at 5:02pm
Yes, I remember hearing it on a smaller market station at the time and it really surprised me that there was no DJ voice at all (I had heard a couple of the custom versions as well). I thought maybe the station took it out for some reason, but years later I found out there actually was a promo version released, which makes more sense. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 24 July 2025 at 6:13am
Hi People, I do know the no-DJ version got airplay, it received most of the play in my market. I was asking about the NO INTRO no-DJ version. Did that exist on a promo back-in-the-day? I remember buying the 'Greatest Hits-Ten Years and Change' CD and was glad to get it without Les Garland, but I was dismayed the acapella intro was chopped off. Andy |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 24 July 2025 at 6:40am
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Andy - The only versions released at the time all had the same sung intro. The no-intro no-DJ-rap first appeared on the CD Greatest Hits Ten Years And Change 1979-1991 (1991). It was a mastering error, similar to Columbia's Heart Of Rock (1988) cutting off the five-snare intro of "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now". That error would find its way onto Realm's Gold And Platinum Vol. 4 (1988), the TM Century library (I think), and swaitek's The A List Disc 40 (1994). ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 24 July 2025 at 11:06am
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The version on Greatest Hits sounds like a better and lower generation tape than what appears on the RCA Roller Hockey compilation. When I have some time, I'll create a new file that matches the promo 45 using this source but adding the intro. Years ago, I faded the copy from Roller Hockey to match the length of the promo 45. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 25 July 2025 at 6:29am
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What I'd like to find is the No Les Garland version with full acapella intro and full fade. Andy |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 25 July 2025 at 6:04pm
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That is what's on Roller Hockey - The Album, which should be indicated correctly in the database. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 26 July 2025 at 8:07am
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Thanks, Aaron! What threw me off was the error in the Discogs listing of the Roller Hockey CD - it (erroneously) mentioned that it *excludes* the acapella intro. Andy |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 July 2025 at 11:26am
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I don't ever trust Discogs when it comes to that type of info. The database says: (4:50) RCA 67474 Roller Hockey - The Album (dj single version without rap but :20 longer) ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 July 2025 at 11:36am
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I updated the Discogs release page. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 29 July 2025 at 8:18pm
In the DC area, I never heard the no-DJ rap version and don't recall hearing a version with local letters. What's interesting though is that in 1977 when I lived outside Boston, there was a top 100 hit called "Turn on the Radio" by Glory, which had SUNG vocals for at least 3 different radio stations' call letters (at least one of which I have on cassette somewhere). I bought the 45 in the 1990s and it just had general lyrics in that line. As a kid I was fascinated by this record. I should add that the lines that had the call letters (like WVBF, etc.) had the same lead vocalist as the rest of the song - which means the label had the singer sing the call letters for (presumably) any radio station that requested it. A very smart thing to do promotion-wise - should have made it a hit. And it was a catchy pop song. So this is a bit like the Starship situation - except the lead singer of the group re-sung the non-generic version of the lyrics for many stations. I wonder what stations, not in Boston or Providence, RI, played this song - either a personalized version or the generic version like what I found on 45. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 30 July 2025 at 8:43am
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Does anyone have a dub (of any version) for me to hear of "Turn On The Radio" by Glory? It seemed to peak out at #110 in Record World only. Thanks! Andy |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 31 July 2025 at 1:50am
| Andy, I have the 45 (of the "generic" version). PM your email address. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 31 July 2025 at 6:23am
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Thanks! You've probably got my email addy, it's etidjATverizon.net Andy |