"Iko Iko" Belle Stars
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Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1588
Printed Date: 24 April 2025 at 1:18am
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Topic: "Iko Iko" Belle Stars
Posted By: EdisonLite
Subject: "Iko Iko" Belle Stars
Date Posted: 16 December 2006 at 9:40pm
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I noticed that the two CDs containing this song (the "Rain Man" soundtrack and the "Then '80s" CD) have different mixes, which I don't think anyone's pointed out before. It's especially apparent in the intro. If you cut off the 1st 1.5 seconds of the "Rain Man" intro, that's where the "Then '80s" intro starts -- except the "boingy" sound that begins the "Then '80s" intro has no click-sounding percussion underneath, while "Rain Man" has the boingy sound WITH a click-sounding percussion. Also, there seems to be some different percussion on the "Then" CD -- while the "Rain Man" version has much more stereo separation of instruments (particularly drums). The "Then" seems almost mono (but it's not.) Also, around 2:17 the versions totally diverge from each other. On "Rain Man", it just repeats the tag line over and over while the "Then" version has another chorus ("Talking 'bout Hey now, hey now..."
I know the "Then" CD series claims all are "original 45 versions" but in some cases it's not true (e.g. Get Wet's "Just So Lonely"). So is the "Then" version truly the 45 version and was it this mono-ish? Also, this was a hit in the UK in '82, but a hit here in '89. So maybe -- is there an '82 mix and an '89 mix? If anyone can shoot an mp3 my way of the 45, I can help to figure out what version is what. This was a #14 hit --I'm surprised nobody on this board caught it (or at least mentioned it on the board). :) Seems like we're always unearthing something new. I hope this turns out to be a single mix. |
Replies:
Posted By: Paul C
Date Posted: 16 December 2006 at 10:59pm
| The version on "Then '80s" is NOT the 45 version. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 12:42am
| Paul, is the 45 version the same as the album version? |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 8:15am
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yes....the 45 and cassingle version are both the same as the lp version from the "rain man" soundtrack, and they all run 2:52.....btw...the 45's face states the run time as 2:49.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 10:03am
| So does anyone know what version is on "Then 5"? Is it a 12" remix? an unreleased alternate mix? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 10:46am
| Interesting... Usually, the Varese Sarabande label is careful about including the correct hit versions on their CDs, especially when the packaging indeed says "original 45 versions". So EdisonLite may be on to something here... Could the mix of "Iko Iko" appearing on the Then 80's - Totally Oldies 5 CD (Varese Saraband 302066444) be the original non-hit mix that was first released in 1982? Also, notice that the mix on Then 80's runs :04 longer than on the Rain Man soundtrack. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 2:36pm
| Jim recently sent me a copy of the "7-inch Mix" for review, which is contained on the 12" vinyl single. I'm guessing this mix was not actually included on the 7" single, because it's totally different with a hip-hop beat behind it. The rhythm track uses samples from Rob Base's hit "It Takes Two." |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 4:31pm
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<I'm guessing this mix was not actually included on the 7" single, because it's totally different with a hip-hop beat behind it. >
It sounds like the mix on "Then 5" is not the mix Aaron speaks of above, as it doesn't really have a hip hop beat. It's not that far from the original mix. It's got more percussion but definitely not something radically different that I'd label hip hop (ala the '90s mix of "December 1963.") So it sounds like there's at least 4 mixes floating around out there of the Belle Stars recording: the LP/45 mix the mystery mix on "Then 5" The 12" vinyl mix and the other mix on the 12" vinyl disc called "7-inch mix". Unless someone has all 4 of these, I suppose it's possible there's overlap here. And who knows if there was a 1982 7" mix that would bring the total to 5. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 4:33pm
| And one more thought ... was there a Belle Stars LP with this song (either in '89 or '82)? Maybe the "Rain Man" LP has one mix (that became the hit) but the Belle Stars LP has another mix?? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 8:23pm
I think you're probably accurate on all four of those being unique mixes. The 7-inch Mix on the 12" single sounds like a short version of the 12" Mix, which is radically different. |
EdisonLite wrote:Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 7:25am
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"Iko Iko" originally appeared on The Belle Stars LP, Stiff/Warner Bros. 1-23866, 1983, with a printed time of 3:01. Not sure if it was released as a US single at the time, but it hit UK#35 in June 1982.
The version on the '83 LP is a completely different recording than the one on the Rain Man soundtrack, which was recorded from scratch for Capitol. The '83 version is faster than the '89 version - about 107 BPM vs. 104 BPM. The version with the "It Takes Two" beat was on the Capitol 12" in 1989, but was certainly not the hit. At the time, it didn't even work well on the dance floor. Hope this helps. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 12:18pm
| With the help of Jim, I compared the actual WB 1989 45 with the version on the "Rain Man" soundtrack CD and they are identical (other than the fact that the left and right channels have been reversed.) |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 12:44pm
| The channel reversal is my bad, Gordon - I can't seem to keep my L/R turntable jacks plugged into the correct slots! Please keep that in mind for future comparisons I may send you - in this case, feel free to shoot the messenger! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 05 January 2007 at 8:33pm
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I just heard back from someone I know (Bill Pitzonka) at Varese Sarabande, the label that issued the mystery mix of "Iko Iko" on "Then 5", and he writes:
<The tape we were given was for the U.S. Single Version, whatever that means ...> Is it possible there were 2 different US singles of this (that look identical on the 45 label but have different matrix numbers printed on the wax)? |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 05 January 2007 at 8:58pm
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I just told Bill about the comments on this board (i.e. the single mix is the same as the album mix) and he responded:
<I think this was the Capitol Rain Man single mix, if I remember correctly ... which would have made it the charted version ... > Can anyone look into this? |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 05 January 2007 at 9:26pm
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Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 05 January 2007 at 10:31pm
| Sounds like this may well be a case where the box Capitol sent to Varese was either mis-labeled or the wrong master tape was stored inside, and Varese never checked the tape against the 45. At any rate, this message thread prompted me to go out and pick up a copy of the Rain Man CD soundtrack and thus I now have the correct hit mix! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 23 November 2015 at 8:32pm
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Mark asked me about "Iko Iko", so I thought I'd post my findings here.
The 45 version from 1989 is the hit version that I assume all of us are looking for. It was the same version that was included on the Rain Man soundtrack, and both were on Capitol. There was no full-length Belle Stars album to accompany the Capitol 45; this was a soundtrack-only song. The 45 version runs 104.2 BPM throughout on the Rain Man soundtrack, with no visible edits, and no tempo drifts. The version on Varese's Totally Oldies Vol. 5 Then '80s (2003) is closer to the 45 than I initially thought, but is still different. The boingy intro is different (Mark figured out where this came from; see below.) Unfortunately, the 1989 version can't be recreated from this version because of the intro. The Varese version matches up with the 1989 version beginning at the first cowbell sound (2.9 seconds in on the 1989 version, 1.4 seconds in on the Varese version). They match up until 2:09, where the Varese version includes a very obvious-sounding edit to loop a different portion of the song. The Varese version also has another edit at 2:25. So, the endings are different as well. The Varese version runs 104.5 BPM until 0:22, and 104.2 BPM after 0:22, with the edits at 2:09 and 2:25. It's about 3 dB louder than the Rain Man soundtrack, with a significantly brighter EQ and a little added compression/limiting. The Belle Stars originally released the song in 1982 on Stiff in the UK (45+LP) and on Warner Bros. in the US (just LP). I have the US LP version, but not the UK versions - I don't know if the UK 45 is different from the UK LP, or if either differs from the US. My WB copy of the US LP runs about 3.0% faster than the 1989 version. To my ears, it sounds like the same backing track as the 1989 version, but with a different lead vocal track. I sent a copy to Mark to confirm. Mark discovered that the boingy intro on the Varese disc matches the boingy intro on the 1982 version. After you slow the US WB version down to match the 1989 version, the US WB version also has edits at 2:09 and 2:26, in the same places as the Varese disc. The Varese disc fades about 15 seconds before the US WB version. So it looks like the Varese disc has the same song structure/backing track as the US WB version but fades earlier, has the same tempo as the 1989 version (about 3.0% slower than the WB), and somehow includes the same lead vocal as the 1989 version. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 23 November 2015 at 11:07pm
Hmmm, well, just to add to this discussion, while looking up "Iko Iko" on Discogs, I noticed there were, in fact, TWO different promo 45s issued for this single here in the U.S. in 1989, anyway (don't know about commercial). Pages, complete w/ photos: http://www.discogs.com/Belle-Stars-Iko-Iko/release/1289599 - THE BELLE STARS - "Iko Iko" (first U.S. promo 45) http://www.discogs.com/Belle-Stars-Iko-Iko/release/3019245 - THE BELLE STARS - "Iko Iko" (second U.S. promo 45) The first one above is on Capitol P-B-44343, which matches the commercial single. The second had its own unique promo no., on Capitol 7PRO-79543. Both have white labels and a printed time of "2:49". I don't know if the versions appearing on them differ, though (don't own either myself). Calling jimct!!! :-) |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 24 November 2015 at 4:51am
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Gregg, my station was sent/I currently own copies of both promo 45s you
just provided Discogs scans for. I just pulled them for you. Your first/second notations are wrong, however, as it was the 7PRO-79543 promo 45 issued first. (Deadwax for both sides are identical: "7PRO- 79543 G-1", followed by a Q-shaped, stamped imprint (likely indicative of a specific pressing plant). then "R-22433-G1" and "triangle 23998"). The P-B-44343, 2nd-issued U.S promo 45 also has the exact same deadwax info on both sides of it. And, with one key exception, they are 100% identical to the 7PRO-79543 promo 45's deadwax details. Except this one has "scratched off" the "7PRO-79543" part, and added "B-1- 44343" just to its left. Bottom line: the musical contents of both of my Capitol promo 45s are 100% identical, despite the two different promo 45 inventory numbers existing. So the promo 45 dub I passed along years ago for analysis, earlier in this thread, does still accurately represent the contents of both "iko Iko" Capitol promo 45s.. |
Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 25 November 2015 at 3:17pm
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The reason there were two promo 45s is that in 1989, Capitol was one of the first labels to start releasing 45s promo-only. Between '89 and '91 there were over 50 and they all started with the 7PRO- no.
Sometimes they'd intend to release one promo-only then change their minds and release it commercially - then you'd get the regular no. which at that time would be 44xxx. "Iko Iko" did come out commercially, and there's also a Beastle Boys single from the same year where this was the case - but most of the others in the 7PRO series never came out commercially. |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 26 November 2015 at 2:36am
Actually, I never stated which one I thought was issued first, as I did not know; my use of the words "first" and "second" above were for descriptive purposes only...
Hey, no need to get defensive. :-) You NEVER stated in your original posts from 2006-07 above that two different U.S. promo 45s for "Iko Iko" existed, so when I discovered that on Discogs, I felt it was worth pointing out here. Not to mention that I know you're a completist when it comes to promo 45s, so if you were missing/unaware of one of them, you'd surely want to track the other down, and hopefully report its contents here - that was why I picked you to call out at the end of my post. And hasn't obtaining complete promo & commercial 45 info always been a big part of what Pat's db and this forum are all about??? Geez, if it'll make you happy, going forward I'll pass on reporting any U.S. 45 pressing variants that haven't been documented here (commercial or promo), despite my numerous previous contributions in that area over my ten years here (David Naughton, Spanish-language versions, etc.)... Thanks for the info, though... |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 26 November 2015 at 2:40am
That was going to be my next question - WHY two different-numbered promo 45s w/ the same version then??? Thanks for the explanation! :-) |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 26 November 2015 at 9:32am
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Gregg, thanks for your psycho-analysis of my reply. I wasn't feeling even
one iota of "defensive" while typing it in. More like Jack Webb on Dragnet - "just the facts", but it must be true, since I just read it on the Internet - from you! Will you be sending me a bill for your professional services? I'm WAY too busy these days to be concerned with my "inner child", or any subconscious motivations that your radar somehow picked up from my reply. The way your first/second release statement read to me, you were stating a sequential fact. Your typical posts do routinely delve deeply into "current release mega-minutia". I enjoy reading them; you have a knack for such detail, which I truly appreciate. I never recall you citing "for descriptive purposes only" before. Interesting. Yet I'M the one who's being defensive here... For the umpteenth time, Gregg, I see you're up to your old tricks again - passive-aggressive confrontation with me, and making things up out of thin air. As always, I refuse to get tangled up in your spiderweb of senseless, back-and-forth bickering, and will ignore any reply you make to me here. You had a question, and "paged" me. I answered it, as quickly and completely as possible. I've been asked to do the exact same thing countless times before on this forum. Always my pleasure to help. Why didn't you just say, "Thanks, Jim", like everyone else does? Excuse me, kind sir. I have turkey and pie to eat, and loved ones to share quality time with. Happy Thanksgiving to all! :) |