Simon & Garfunkel-"Cecilia"
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1891
Printed Date: 02 November 2025 at 11:32am
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Topic: Simon & Garfunkel-"Cecilia"
Posted By: jimct
Subject: Simon & Garfunkel-"Cecilia"
Date Posted: 30 March 2007 at 12:59am
| My commercial 45 for this is mono, has a listed time of (2:40), but an actual time of (2:37). Except for one database CD, which states a time of (2:52), all of the other current database CDs for this state a time of (2:54). Pat, it appears we may have to take a closer look at this one, to sort out the :17 second time difference here (2:37 vs. 2:54). |
Replies:
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 30 March 2007 at 5:57am
| After comparing the 45 and LP appearance of this song it is obvious how the printed and actual timing difference came about on the 45. The orginal intent was to fade out the LP at the 2:40 mark for 45 release but then someone made the decision to speed up the 45 by :03 and so we ended up with a running time of 2:37. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 21 September 2007 at 9:44am
| Is it my imagination in the 45 version, they sing Ce-Cilia but, in the LP version, it sounds like Cilia? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 21 September 2007 at 10:02am
| Yep, that's true. And the mono hit mix has never been issued on CD |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 21 September 2007 at 2:51pm
|
I played the 45 and then i played the version on the expanded Bridge Over Troubled Water cd as part of the complete columbia studio recordings box set, and I kept trying to hear for "celia" verses "ce-celia", however to my ears it sounded as if both versions sounded exactly the same. Is there a specific point in the song where i should be listening to for a difference? I may have to fold the album version to mono and play it side by side in headphones to hear a distinct difference....but I honestly have not been able to pick that out...they both sound like they're singing celia and then cecilia. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 13 September 2025 at 4:48pm
|
I'm not seeing the following noted anywhere. The version of Cecilia on the original Simon & Garfunkel's Greatest Hits album (Columbia 31350), is not the LP Version, as stated in the database. It is in fact the mono mix up until 1:52, where it cuts over to the stereo version on the first "Jubilation, she loves me again." (And there is a very audible glitch at this point.) It also sounds like the music slows ever so slightly at this point, which makes sense, since it's been determined that the mono single runs slightly faster than the LP. I checked a vinyl copy of the Greatest Hits album on YouTube against the current digital version of the album, and they are the same. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 September 2025 at 5:44pm
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Interesting. Not all pressings are like this, as the Greatest Hits copy I have on my hard drive is in stereo for the full song. It also sounds like stereo reverb has been added to it, but it's not the mono mix with reverb. The shaker is panned to the left channel only. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 14 September 2025 at 12:49pm
Are you talking about the version on your CD or the one that's available digitally? And I have to admit, I don't KNOW this is the version that was on the original CD, I'm just assuming, as it is definitely the original vinyl LP version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjx2AL23C9c&list=RDmjx2AL23C9c&start_radio=1" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjx2AL23C9c&list=RDmjx2AL23C9c&start_radio=1 |
aaronk wrote:Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 14 September 2025 at 4:45pm
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I'm talking about a rip of the CD, which comes from Ron's collection. I can pull my actual disc to find out if it's the same as Ron's pressing, but it would not surprise me if there are multiple pressings of Greatest Hits with varying mixes and masters. Considering how many copies the album sold, surely someone at some point pulled different tapes and re-compiled the album. It is cool, though, that the original vinyl and digital/streaming version has the first 1:51 of the mono mix. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 17 September 2025 at 6:28pm
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It is worth noting that the mono single mix also has a third vocal harmony line through the entire song that isn't present on the stereo mix. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 18 September 2025 at 4:42pm
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I have a later CD pressing (late 1990s) of S&G's Greatest Hits and, even by the standards of the pre-remastered Columbia CDs, it's one of the worst sounding CDs I have ever heard. Extremely high generation source tapes. It does have a full stereo "Cecilia". ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: whyaduck
Date Posted: 02 October 2025 at 12:19pm
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Probably best not to comment on SQ, which is highly subjective and entirely opinion, on these boards and stick to facts. The "playlist" version has the correct GH mix of Cecilia |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 03 October 2025 at 10:40am
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Mono 45 version Nope. As long as Paul Simon walks this earth, I'm willing to bet that this will never appear on CD or in digital form. The vinyl dub that I have runs 2:38. Hit 1970 stereo mix I would think that any CD released before 1997 would have the original stereo mix, but there are different amounts of added stereo reverb on many of them. Not just the echo effect of the drum track, but real stereo reverb on top of that. I don't know what was on the 1970 vinyl LP. The 1990 original CD release (Columbia C3K 45322) of 1981's Collected Works has what I'd call a medium amount of added stereo reverb. Warner Brothers' Paul Simon 1964/1993 (1993) is a differently-EQ'd digital clone of Collected Works, and therefore also has a medium amount of added stereo reverb. The 1985 original CD release (Columbia CK 31350) of 1972's Simon And Garfunkel's Greatest Hits has what I'd deem to be a life-threatening amount of added stereo reverb. It's a big soupy mess. Others: I don't have the 1985 original CD release (Columbia CK 9914) of 1970's Bridge Over Troubled Water album. The 1983 (?) original CD release of 1981's The Simon And Garfunkel Collection almost certainly has pre-emphasis, which boosts the very high end unnaturally. Even with the high end boost, it sounds pinched and weird, like the mastering added noise reduction that sucked all the life out of the recording. It's not the digital-era noise reduction, which shows artifacts on the fade, but it has the same effect of deadening the whole recording. I avoid this collection when I can; it's the one with two guys on the beach that are hilariously not Paul and Art. Literally everything is wrong with this disc. Edit - the following is not a new remix from 1997 by Vic Anesini, but is a mastering without any stereo reverb; see the next few posts Vic Anesini remixed everything (edit - no, not everything) on Columbia Legacy's Old Friends box (1997). The new mixes sound stellar, as you might imagine, as Vic Anesini is superb at what he does. The left and right channels are out of synch by 1 sample, which is easy to fix. The opening drum track is centered (after you resynch the L and R channels), and there's no stereo reverb. The song is basically mono until 0:05 when the shaker comes in slightly panned. When the vocals start, the only instruments that have any panning are the shaker and the vocals. This 1997 mix has essentially no added stereo reverb. Old Friends fades the last two beats of the song to silence. There are level-adjusted digital clones on:
My recommendations For the 1970 stereo mix, I guess it depends on what's on the 1970 vinyl LP. I'm hoping someone will post what was on the 1985 original CD release of Bridge Over Troubled Water. For the 1997 stereo remix, you can fix the desynchronization yourself on any of the above, or just go with Legacy's Over The Bridge Of Time - A Paul Simon Retrospective (1964-2011) (2013). ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 03 October 2025 at 4:54pm
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The Bridge Over Troubled Water tracks on Old Friends seem to be the same source as the Mastersound CD of that album from the early '90s with a slight level adjustment and an instance or two of dropouts fixed. I don't think it's a remix. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 03 October 2025 at 7:21pm
|
Excellent work, LunarLaugh! I can confirm that Old Friends (1997) is digitally exactly 0.9 dB louder than the Mastersound gold disc of Bridge Over Troubled Water (1993). Bridge tracks into the next selection and doesn't fade out the last two beats of the song, as is done on Old Friends. The Mastersound disc also has the left/right desychronization of one sample - easy to fix if you should choose to do so. So there's only one stereo mix (from multitracks) of "Cecilia", but three flavors of stereo reverb: None (Mastersound, 1993), Some (Collected Works), and Way Too Much (Greatest Hits). I'd like to know what was on the 1970 vinyl LP, and what was on the 1985 CD of Bridge. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 03 October 2025 at 7:50pm
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I have my old 1980s UK CBS CD of "BRIDGE..." which I can assume is probably a clone of the old US Columbia that I can send your way for anaylsis. If I recall correctly, Bob Irwin stated that the Mastersound CD and the 2000s reissue of the Bridge Over Troubled Water album (which, like the tracks on Old Friends, are nearly identical give or take a few "fixes") were sourced from a Dolby safety dub of the master that was made sometime in the 1970s before the actual master got damaged beyond playability but DON'T quote either me or him on that. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 03 October 2025 at 8:29pm
|
I can also confirm that the 1985 CD of Bridge Over Troubled Water has no stereo reverb. Although this disc seems to use source tapes that are higher generation than the Mastersound, it sounds far better than I expected it to. Yay, early Columbia CDs! So the stereo reverb was added after the song was a hit. For Collected Works, it was added either in 1981 for the LP release, or in 1990 for the CD release. For Greatest Hits, it was either 1972 for the LP release, or in 1985 for the CD release. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 04 October 2025 at 8:01am
I have a copy of the original LP, purchased new in 1970, if no one beats me to it, I'll pass along a dub later this weekend.
Curiously, did there exist a mono/stereo promo 45 of this (Cecilia)? Most Columbia promos from 1970 were that way, I could swear the copy my station played back then was that way, but the copy in my collection is just a white label version of the (mono) commercial single, as is every other copy I've ever come across. The other 2 promo singles from BOTW were mono/stereo. Or am I just misremembering? |
Posted By: kaqueno
Date Posted: 04 October 2025 at 8:32am
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I don't want to stray from the topic, just to say that the compilation "The Complete Singles Collection 1965-1970 bootleg (2013)" contains the Cecilia [mono 45 mix] (2:40), I don't know the source ------------- Marcelo - Argentina https://www.mixcloud.com/marcelo-guzman4/ - https://www.discogs.com/user/kaqueno/collection |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 04 October 2025 at 10:27am
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That boot set is sourced from various clean vinyl 45 rips. Excellent collection. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |