Duran Duran-"Hungry Like The Wolf"
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Topic: Duran Duran-"Hungry Like The Wolf"
Posted By: jimct
Subject: Duran Duran-"Hungry Like The Wolf"
Date Posted: 06 June 2007 at 4:06pm
| Pat, the full story of this song's long road to becoming a national Top 40 hit is almost exactly the same as its follow-up hit, "Rio." First released around the last week of July 1982, as Harvest 5134, is the listed (3:23), non-hit version of "Hungry Like The Wolf". The other side of this Harvest 5134 45 is, "Careless Memories (Live Version)". We received no promo 45 for this issue, just commercial 45s into the station, and it quickly disappeared without a trace. Now, move ahead 4 1/2 to 5 months, to December of 1982. By the way, between July and December of '82, the initial release of the "Rio" 45 has also been put out, as Harvest 5175, and also totally flopped. But the group was a big fave on MTV, and the label was selling records on them. So the record company tried again with "Hungry...", this time with (4:11) and (5:14) remixes appearing as both sides of this newly-issued 45, released as Harvest 5195. FYI, we received only stock copies as well for this 45 issue, which was rather unusual for the times. This is the 45 issue that hit #3 on Billboard, in March of 1983. Pat, my main point here is that the (4:11) "hit" version was the only one we ever played at our station. I would suspect the (5:14) flip probably also got some good radio airplay at the time. But I do not believe that the initial, mid-1982, (3:23) version deserves any database credit as a "hit" version. In my opinion, it was nothing but an early, non-hit release of a later-remixed Top 40 hit, and any and all (3:23) database CD appearances should be notated as such, for accuracy's sake. |
Replies:
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 06 June 2007 at 5:37pm
|
Hi
I had purchased all of the above mentioned 45's at their time of release. (the first and second issues..) But I am confused a bit with "Hungry.." I just assumed the '83 hit single version was the longer 5:14 (also known as the "Night Version") was the A-side. Why? In NY, that was the version that was played on the major top 40 stations. Even the Rio album was re-pressed in '83 to include the 5:14 version at that point. It was not until later, when the cd era arrived, the short one on the greatest hits cd became the norm. I myself was annoyed the long one was not used on the hits cd, and had to buy the "Night Versions" CD to finally get it on CD. Even the CD of the Rio album had reverted to its first-issued version. Am i the only one who remembers it this way? -MM |
Posted By: BillCahill
Date Posted: 18 June 2007 at 4:45pm
| Yeah probably a case of don't know or don't care at EMI. I was surprised to EVER see that 3:23 edit make it to CD. I would think the 5:14 versions would make it to more CDs, or at least be a bonus track. EMI may have simply gone back to "British" versions, which might be 3:23 for the single and 4:11 for the LP. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 30 August 2007 at 11:13pm
| This is probably just a simple timing error issue, but I think it's worth noting. The database indicates that some commercial copies run (4:11), but the CDs listed in the database with the "45 version" all run (4:03). Is it safe to assume that the (4:11) label time is wrong? |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 31 August 2007 at 7:23am
|
Now, you guys know I don't trust label timings, so i'll say this:
The greatest hits version is the single mix that appeared on the B side of the commercial 45s - I have it - but it is faded early to exclude those cries of passion at the fadeout. The 45 has a very long fadeout. The correct, full-length 45 version is on a long OOP Sandstone/DCC CD called "Rock The First", and was mastered by Steve Hoffman. Radio around here played the B side remix. Not only are there at least three lengths of this song, there are two mixes. ------------- |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 31 August 2007 at 9:11am
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aaronk wrote:Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 6:22pm
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Pat:
The 3:23 non-hit version of "Hungry Like the Wolf" has appeared on a number of database CDs with the comment: (this is one of the dj edits of the 45). Since it's been established that this non-hit version was also issued as a commercial 45, I'm thinking it would be more accurate to re-work the comment to read something like: (this is the non-hit version). |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 01 November 2008 at 12:41pm
|
Here's a scan of the (3:23) double-A-sided promo copy of the "Hungry Like The Wolf" 45 from the KDWB singles library, complete with grease pencil mark for carting. This was the only copy of the single in the library.
(I can't say for certain that it was the only version that was played on KDWB. I was at KOMA at the time.) 
|
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 01 November 2008 at 1:15pm
|
John:
Can't say I've ever seen grease pencil marks on a 45 before in the years I carted music up. What was the purpose of the mark? |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 01 November 2008 at 1:57pm
|
John, the mark was used as a visual reference point by some folks to account for the split-second gap needed between hitting the "start" button on the cart recorder and the beginning of the song, in order to have the carted song's starting point consistently (but not overly) tight upon playback.
As you might guess, I detested any defacing of records, be it with date stamps, grease marks, Magic Markers or, horror of horrors, compass points. When I began carting music at KOMA, I ditched the pencil (who wants grease gunking up the stylus?) and simply made a mental note of the spot on the label where the music began, then aligned that spot with the second of two marks on the production studio turntable's rim. When the turntable spun around to the first rim mark, you'd hit the start button, then concentrate on riding the levels during the dubbing process. Ah, yes... ye olde radio days. I knew I was officially a fossil when I spotted an ITC triple cart deck at the Pavek Museum of Broadcasting in Minneapolis some years ago. :) |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 20 November 2008 at 9:14am
|
my commercial 45 issued as harvest 5195 states on the label "remixed by david kershenbaum" and lists a run time as 4:11 but actually runs 4:03 and is identical to the cd version listed below.
(S) (4:03) Rhino 78239 Like, Omigod! The '80$ Pop Culture Box (Totally) (45 version) 
 ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: abagon
Date Posted: 11 May 2011 at 9:40am
|
The actual running time of my American pressing "Rio" LP is "5:17" (Capitol AT-12211, the listed time "5:14")
There are 2 CD entries on the Database as (remix). (5:14) EMI-Capitol Entertainment Properties 93922 Essential (remix) (5:10) EMI 65633 Rio (deluxe edition) (remix) I presume that the above 2 CDs are "US LP version. Because the running time is about the same as the 5:17 US LP version. The vocal "Darken the city nights" on the US LP version starts at 1:28. --abagon |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 13 May 2011 at 12:41am
|
Interestingly, my 45 of this was on the purple Capitol label instead of Harvest. (the charting issue with the long version on it).
-MM |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 13 May 2011 at 5:53am
This song charted right about the time EMI discontinued the Harvest label and rolled the songs onto Capitol. "She Blinded Me With Science" was another one where early singles were on Harvest and later pressings on Capitol. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 13 May 2011 at 7:04am
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I have scans!
http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/girlsonfilm45.jpg - Girls On Film promo 45 http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/planeteartha.jpg - Planet Earth commercial 45 http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/hungryora.jpg - Original non-hit mix for Hungry Like The Wolf with http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/hungryorb.jpg - B-side Hit mix on http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/hungryharvesta.jpg - Harvest and http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/hungrypurplea.jpg - Capitol Not to veer too far off-topic, but there were 3 permutations of the US "Science" 45: the http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/scienceharvesta.jpg - Harvest label, the http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/sciencepurplea.jpg - purple label, and the http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/sciencerainbowa.jpg - rainbow label And a http://www.crapfromthepast.com/favorites/sights/sciencesleevea.jpg - UK picture sleeve |
Posted By: abagon
Date Posted: 20 May 2011 at 8:41am
I was able to get the "Harvest" label LP of "Rio". The actual running times of three hit songs on the "harvest" LP are just the same as the "Capitol" release LP. --abagon |
Posted By: Jody Thornton
Date Posted: 20 May 2011 at 9:18pm
Now that short version was just the LP edit wasn't it? The original single had a more cleaner less reverberated mix on it. And the edit at 2:20 included all three of Simon's "Hungry..." whispers. Where did that mix originate from? ------------- Cheers, Jody Thornton (Richmond Hill, Ontario) |
Posted By: Jody Thornton
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 6:33am
|
Wait - I figured it out I think. That's the 4:11 version isn't it? It was a dryer mix right?
------------- Cheers, Jody Thornton (Richmond Hill, Ontario) |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 9:31pm
|
A few more technical observations regarding Duran Duran's "Hungry Like the Wolf"...
1) There are several database CDs where the song has the comment: "UK LP version". But since it's been established that this version also appeared on early U.S. LP pressings, perhaps it would be more accurate to re-work the comment to read something like: "UK LP version, which also appeared on early U.S. vinyl LP pressings". 2) All 4:03 45 version appearances of "Hungry Like the Wolf" on CD currently have a "45 version" comment. Since there are two hit 45 version pressings with run times of 4:03 and 5:14, respectively, I would submit that database CDs containing the 4:03 45 version should have a revised comment of: "short 45 version". 3) As Abagon pointed out previously, there are two database CD appearances of "Hungry Like the Wolf" running 5:10 and 5:14 that have a "remix" comment. Can anyone confirm if these discs actually contain the long 45 version, which also appeared on later pressings of the U.S. vinyl LP? |
Posted By: Ringmaster_D
Date Posted: 06 April 2015 at 1:03pm
| I noticed that no one ever responded to the last question in the above post, but if you're looking for the long (Night) version of "Hungry Like The Wolf" it can also be found on the 2CD Limited Collector's Edition of Rio, which I believe was an import only released in 2009. Not only does the CD sound really good, but it also has all the UK and US LP song versions, all the Night Versions, as well as most of the relevant remixes. It is only missing some of the single edits. |
Posted By: Jody Thornton
Date Posted: 09 April 2015 at 6:42am
|
Well my confusion is that the "edit" that was included on the greatest hits CD and is now heard commonly on the radio is an edit of the "Night Version". It only has two "hungry Like the Wolf" whispers in the refrain. Whereas the hit radio version I was familiar with was a more plain mix, but with the same edit going right into the first verse at about nine seconds, and with three "hungry" whispers in the refrain (different edit point). Also it has a loud moan at the end. To me that's the definitive radio version.
What I'd like to know is, what was the UK LP version? I thought that the 5:14 Night Mix WAS the orignal LP version. This reminds me of the longer Go Gos "We Got the Beat" confusion...lol ------------- Cheers, Jody Thornton (Richmond Hill, Ontario) |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 April 2015 at 3:32pm
This is actually not true. The short non-hit 45 version found on Decade cannot be created by using the longer "Night Version." To name a couple of immediate differences, the drums have different reverb between the two, and the opening guitar note is longer on the 45 than on the "Night Version." ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 April 2015 at 3:38pm
|
Here's a summary of all the various versions I'm aware of.
3:40 US LP version (on early vinyl pressings) 3:24 non-hit US 45 version (an edit of the 3:40 LP version) 4:03 short hit US 45 version 5:17 US LP version (later pressings) & long hit US 45 version (aka "Night Version") ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Jody Thornton
Date Posted: 10 April 2015 at 9:54am
|
OK so can you describe the US "original LP version"? What are the edit points/or verses missing? Is it the one Decade? I take it that the 4:03 short US hit version is the one I sent you in an email (to me, the definitive version you never hear any more)
------------- Cheers, Jody Thornton (Richmond Hill, Ontario) |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 April 2015 at 10:06am
|
The original/UK LP version and non-hit 45 version are the same mix. There is only one edit on the 45, removing about 11 seconds in the breakdown from approximately 2:20 to 2:31 of the 3:40 LP version (on the snare drum hit). The edit removes two of the "hungry like the wolf" whispers, so you only hear it once. The non-hit 45 version is also sped up by about 1.5% from the LP version, which accounts for the additional time difference. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Jody Thornton
Date Posted: 10 April 2015 at 10:22am
|
I see. I honestly thought the edit for "Decade" was just hastily put together for that compilation. I never ever knew it was part of an original issue.
Also, what added to the confusion for me was, I always considered the downbeat of the first verse to be an "edit" point, since I was of the mindset that the 5:14 version WAS the LP version. So technically, I suppose that's not an edit. So I get the rest then. ------------- Cheers, Jody Thornton (Richmond Hill, Ontario) |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 10 April 2015 at 1:38pm
|
Apparently, there were 7 versions of "Hungry Like The Wolf" released worldwide. ("Rio" had twice that number!)
The following is cut-and-pasted from a detailed page at http://www.ionpool.net/duran/rio.html - http://www.ionpool.net/duran/rio.html : Hungry Like The Wolf [Single Version] (3:27) Found on the original UK 7" single, this is simply an edit of the Album Version. It was edited after the second refrain and runs at an approximate 127 BPM. This 'original' Single Version also appears on the Box Set 'THE SINGLES 81-85'. Hungry Like The Wolf (Night Version) (5:14) This is an extended mix based on the Album Version. It contains additional instrumental sections at the beginning and also extra lyrics towards the end. It runs at an approximate 127 BPM and appears on the UK 12" single, the US issue of 'CARNIVAL' and the third pressing of the American LP. Hungry Like The Wolf [Album Version] (3:39) The standard Album Version with an approximate 127 BPM. Hungry Like The Wolf (132 B.P.M.) [132 B.P.M. Album Version] (3:35) Oddly, a 3:35 version appears on an American promotional 12" sampler. Apparently back in 1982, no one could decide at which speed 'Hungry Like The Wolf' was better - 127 BPM or 132 BPM! If you will listen to each version, you can hear the difference. This is the standard Album Version, although sped-up, and it is labeled as '132 B.P.M.'. Hungry Like The Wolf [130 B.P.M. Single Version] (3:23) This is the Single Version, sped-up to an approximate 130 BPM. This version can be found on the first issue of the US 7" single, on 'DECADE' and 'GREATEST'. Hungry Like The Wolf (Night Version) [129 B.P.M. Night Version] (5:09) Very oddly, a 5:09 Night Version appears on both the Japanese and Dutch vinyl issues of 'CARNIVAL'. It can also be found on the compilations 'STRANGE BEHAVIOUR' from 1999 and 'THE SINGLES 81-85' from May 2003. It is labeled as Night Version, but runs with an approximate 129 BPM. Hungry Like The Wolf [US Album Remix] (4:02) This is a remix of the UK Album Version. It has a different laughing at the beginning, the instrumental part after the second refrain is 9 seconds shorter and at the end we have two more refrains than on the UK Album Version. This mix runs also with an approximate 127 BPM. It can be found on the second pressing of the American LP and was also issued on the US 7" single re-release. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 08 June 2020 at 8:50pm
Mark, A few comments 13 years later... 1) I have never heard the 4:06 or the 1982 radio edit at any time in the 80's or 90's on any station in New York. I was in Brooklyn, so your memory serves you correct. I even heard it in Casey's countdown during February 1983. 2) The night version to me is the version I heard. Numerous others can confirm the 5:14 got played. 3) The longer intro is just plain cool. 4) The 3:25 edit seems to be the go to these days and it just plain takes all the fun out of the song. So if you are a newbie and assembling an 80s collection, go with the 5:14. I specifically bought the Rio 2CD special set for that reason, the one with all the versions a decade ago. That Rio album 2 cd set is probably in my top 4 albums of the 80's. Everything on Rio is a great song, from My Own Way to Rio to Lonely In Your Nightmare. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 09 June 2020 at 9:12pm
|
I revisited all of this, and may as well document what I found. I count four versions, which gets bumped up to six if we include speed differences.
UK LP version and non-hit original US LP version (original mix and speed, runs about 3:39) I have the W. German pressing of the Rio CD. I don't know if the US mastering of Rio differs much from my W. German CD, but I assume that it doesn't. Here, "Hungry Like The Wolf" runs 3:39 and runs 127.7 BPM throughout; I think it's a live drummer playing to a click track. Not counting "My Own Way," which was released as a 45 in late 1981 and rerecorded for Rio, Duran Duran's three huge UK hits from Rio were "Hungry Like The Wolf" (UK#5), "Save A Prayer" (UK#2), and "Rio" (UK#9) - all peaking on the UK charts in mid-to-late 1982. UK 45 version (original mix and speed, runs about 3:27) The UK 45 of "Hungry Like The Wolf" (EMI 5295) and the UK Rio LP were both released with a few days of each other in early May 1982 (release dates according to Wikipedia). To create the UK 45 version, cut out the 24 beats from 2:19.9 to 2:31.1 of the LP version, with edits on the snare. There's no early fade, just one edit. (I should point out that I don't own the UK 45 myself, but base my instructions on the post from ionpool above.) The edit should run about 3:27, and also runs at 127.7 BPM throughout. Non-hit original US 45 version (original mix, sped up, printed 3:23, actual 3:23) The non-hit original US 45 (Harvest 5134) was released in early June 1982 (release date according to Wikipedia). Someone at EMI thought that the US 45 should be faster, and so the non-hit original US 45 is the same edit as the UK 45, but sped up by exactly 1.5%. It runs 3:24, runs at 129.6 BPM throughout, and is found on the excellent Decade greatest hits CD from 1989. This version tanked. Enter David Kershenbaum. Hit long 45 version (David Kershenbaum Carnival remix, about 5:14) EMI brought in David Kershenbaum to remix four songs for the Carnival EP, which was released in September 1982 (release date according to Wikipedia). The EP included the 5:14 version of "Hungry Like The Wolf," labeled as the "Night Version" on the EP. EMI rereleased "Hungry Like The Wolf" on 45 (Capitol 5195 and Harvest 5195) in the US in early December 1982. One side of that 45 was the 5:14 version from Carnival. Hit short 45 version (David Kershenbaum Rio remix, printed 4:11, actual 4:03) EMI and the band really liked what David Kershenbaum did with Carnival, and had him remix all the songs on side 1 of the Rio album. EMI rereleased the Rio vinyl LP in the US with the new remixes, including a new 4:11 (actual 4:03) remix of "Hungry Like The Wolf." The 4:11 version can't be edited down from the 5:14 version. The other side of the Capitol/Harvest 5195 45 included the 4:11 (actual 4:03) version of the song. The 4:11 (actual 4:03) version was notoriously hard to find on CD for years. It appeared on Sandstone's Rock The First Vol. 2 in 1992, and in few other places for years after that. It runs 127.1 BPM throughout on Rock The First Vol. 2. Capitol then released yet another permutation of Rio LP on vinyl, replacing the 4:11 (actual 4:03) version with the 5:14 "Night Version". Matrix numbers? Maybe the matrix numbers from the US 45 versions will help sort this out: 3:23 - X600396 B 5:14 - SX600396D 4:11 - SX600396E There's also a US white-label promo 12 inch single (SPRO-9786), which included the UK album version (the original mix), sped up to "132 B.P.M.", with a printed time of 3:35. This has matrix number SX600396A. I don't know where the "C" version is. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 09 June 2020 at 11:10pm
|
Reading over the thread has jogged a memory for me.
I'm convinced my local top 40 of choice (KELI / 14K) played first one side of the remix single, then at some point switched to the other. ...I can't remember which they played first, though! If someone were to require an answer, I would guess the 4:11 short remix first, and then at some point they switched to the 5:14 long remix. I only say this because the different laugh at the beginning triggers memories of early in the 14K days before they added the FM (92K) and the long version sounds more "normal." I doubt this adds much to the debate about the "radio" side, except to perhaps show that the Tulsa programmers started out with the short version and, likely after getting airchecks from New York, flipped to playing the long version. I have NO memory of what version the "heritage" top 40, K107 (on the air a whole two years before 14K) was playing; I was superglued to 14K at the time. FWIW BlackLight Radio is playing the 4:11 short edit for now but this thread makes me question that decision. :-) ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 10 June 2020 at 2:57am
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FWIW, I usually heard the (4:03) version on the radio and
it's still my "go-to" version of that song. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 10 June 2020 at 1:10pm
|
Gene,
No need to doubt yourself. The Hit short 45 version (David Kershenbaum Rio remix, printed 4:11, actual 4:03) is what I carry in my DJ library and have never had someone who's requested the song come up and question why I played that version. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 June 2020 at 6:23pm
|
I’m probably in the minority here, but I prefer the original 3:23 version.
The 4:03 remix sounds slow (pitched down) and the vocals are too loud, IMO. While the Night Version is decent, it takes a minute and a half before the first vocals begin. It also sounds kinda hastily thrown together, like the producer tacked the instrumental onto the beginning of the song rather than creating something special. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: EternalStatic
Date Posted: 10 June 2020 at 6:32pm
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I agree with Aaron that the original mix sounds better -- the entire Side 1 of 'Rio' that David K. remixed for it's U.S. re-release has a bit of that "vocals up" feeling to it, which is jarring, and it does suffer from a slight loss of fidelity IMO; however, I still prefer the U.S. versions for my own personal listening because that's what I grew up listening to, and the original mixes just don't quite hit me the same way. (Probably the same way a lot of Americans might prefer the Capitol Records Beatles albums to the UK versions, despite what are probably somewhat valid criticisms to their artistic direction and/or fidelity.)
I heard the Night Version of "Hungry Like the Wolf" after midnight on our Top 40 station quite a bit. I think they played the shorter U.S. "hit"/LP Version during the day. |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 10 June 2020 at 9:50pm
That's tbe beauty of the night version Aaron. The 3:23 leaves out that awesome instrumental, the girl you know what at the end and the sheer build up of getting to the vocals over a minute and a half later. I think we both agree that the 4:03 lacks some of those elements and has been lost to time. I just think this is one of those instances where if the 3:23 was such a good version in 1982, why did it tank so fast here in the states? What propelled the song to #3 in Feb-March 1983 was the playing of the 4:03 and 5:14 night version. When I was listening to the radio it was getting almost as much airplay as Billie Jean at the time, which stormed up the charts and overtook it at about the same time. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 10 June 2020 at 10:45pm
|
From a top 40 radio jock's perspective (mine, that is), the song intro is extremely important.
We like to talk over the intro to the song (called "working the ramp") and stop talking just before the vocals kick in (called "hitting the post"). Old-time top 40 jocks are AMAZING at this skill. I encourage you to seek out YouTube clips of modern-day Bill Lee introducing songs at WCBS-FM in New York. He's pretty much the king of hitting the post nowadays, but in the '70s, virtually every top 40 station had an on-air staff that could do some variation of working the ramp and hitting the post. (Although probably not doing it while rhyming like Bill Lee.) Point being: The intro is really important for airplay. It sells the song. For us post-hitters, we tend to like song intros that are around 10 seconds, maybe 15 seconds or 20 seconds tops. Ten seconds gives us enough time to get in the call letters, plus something witty and brief. Longer than 15 or 20 seconds, and it gets really difficult to fill the space, especially if you have to play the same song during your shift every day for weeks on end. The intro to "Take On Me" is close to a minute, and it's brutal to try and stretch the on-air talk out that long. Let's see how the timings work out for the various versions of "Hungry Like The Wolf": The 3:23 version has an 8-second intro (i.e., the vocals start at 0:08). That's a perfect length, and very easy to work with. I could work 8-second intros all day. The 4:03 version also has an 8-second intro, which is also perfect. The 5:14 version has a 78-second intro, so that the first vocals kick in at 1:18. This is pure torture! Unless you plan on reading the weather forecast or doing a traffic report, there's no conceivable way you can consistently get though 1:18 of banter to hit the post. It's just awful. (As a 12-inch single, it's great! But there's a reason that not many top 40 stations played lots of 12-inch singles on the air.) So I'd be really curious to hear how on-air folks handled the 5:14 version of the song back then. If I were programming back then, I would have certainly used the 4:03 version, at least during the daytime hours. (The 5:14 version could work in overnights, when there was less chatter.) As for my opinion of the mixes: Almost 40 years later, I prefer the original mixes of the Rio tracks. They're simpler, less flashy, perhaps a little less cluttered, and I think they hang together as an album a little more uniformly than the remixes. I might not have thought so at the time, when big and flashy sounded bigger and flashier on the radio. I've noticed that after many years of hindsight, for lesser hits that weren't pounded to death by repetition, I tend to gravitate toward original LP mixes over the the single mixes. Three examples, all fairly obscure: "FNT" by Semisonic (from their 1996 debut album, two years before "Closing Time"). The original mix had charm and personality, while the single mix just sounded like any other 1996 hit. "I Don't Care" by Shakespear's Sister (the fabulous follow-up to "Stay"). Same thing. The single mix added big guitars and sucked all the personality out of the song. "Like Flames" by Berlin (the fabulous follow-up to "Take My Breath Away"). The 45 had some strange edits that cut out some 2-beat drum fills and ruined the flow of the song. The promo 45 did the same and remixed it to make it even more bland. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: EternalStatic
Date Posted: 11 June 2020 at 10:00am
For whatever reason, our local station added the Extended Version of The Human League's "(Keep Feeling) Fascination" to regular rotation instead of the 45 (my guess is they had the commercial copy of its parent EP on file instead of a single), which has a 66-second intro before the first vocal. I more than once heard them use it as a bed for commercials that didn't have a music bed under them when coming out of a commercial break, so that when the spot was over, the music would fade up ever-so-slightly in the little 5- or 6-second gap leading into the first vocal. I wonder now as an adult if this was against any sort of rules, as I suppose it could be argued that the "song" could be construed as being used to promote someone's business. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 11 June 2020 at 2:57pm
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I do remember from back then that we weren't allowed to
use music from the rotation as music beds for pre- produced stuff. I think if we read it live it was OK. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: EternalStatic
Date Posted: 11 June 2020 at 3:37pm
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Hmmm. As I was really young as a listener at that time, I’ll throw some
benefit of the doubt out there to say that perhaps they were reading live and I just didn’t give them enough credit for the professional sheen of their voices. It’s a possibility! |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 12 June 2020 at 1:18am
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I was at a "Rock 40" in 1989 and once talked up the intro of Stairway To Heaven by Led Zeppelin.
Once. My boss almost took my head off for it! "That music is sacred. Do NOT talk over it!!" We would actually have sub-posts we might hit, where more instruments like the drums kicked in, or a "yeah!" from the vocalist where we would always stop. We could have talked longer, but by 1989 we were getting into another "less talk is more" mentality. Me personally, if what a jock was saying was interesting, he could talk all over the intro and exit as long as he didn't trample the lyrics. I used to compare radio vs. CDs to the Lincoln Towncar vs. a bumper car at the carnival. Both have their purposes. You wouldn't take a long road trip across country in a bumper car any more than you would pay three tickets to drive a Towncar around a tiny rink and run into other cars. (OK, some people might...) If I wanted sonic purity and every note from start to finish, I bought the CD. If I wanted the flashing lights and noise of the midway, the "razzle-dazzle," I turned on the radio. Frankly, now that radio is trying to be more down-to-earth... I find it pretty boring. It's a bit like a movie of Superman brushing his teeth, doing laundry, and washing dishes. Relatable, but not entertaining. ...Now back to your regularly scheduled Hungry Like The Wolf thread! :-D ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 12 June 2020 at 9:08am
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Oh, there's no messing with the intros at rock radio! That was strictly a top 40 thing.
Back then, top 40 jocks would love the intro to Aerosmith's "Love In An Elevator" because of the "Yeah!" before the verse's lyrics kicked in. That intro was Aerosmith's gift to the top 40 world. But rock radio stations wouldn't touch the intro, for the same reason that you can't talk up the ramp to "Stairway To Heaven." (Honestly, I would love to hear what that sounded like, Gene, if you have a tape of it!) Different styles of radio, to be sure. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 12 June 2020 at 11:04am
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Gene, great analogy!
Ron, I agree with you on those Rio mixes. I also prefer the non-hit promo 45 version of "Rio" (edit of UK 12" mix) vs. the commercial 45 version. Again, the vocals are too loud on the stock 45 mix, and it sounds slow. I also don't care for the way the drums are mixed on the commercial 45 version. Personally, I don't give any weight to the mixes on the 45s as being the reason those songs originally tanked and then later (with the new mixes) became hits. I think it was 100% based on the fact that they were an unknown band when the singles first came out, and, for whatever reasons, radio ignored the singles. Once MTV started playing the heck out of the videos, radio finally jumped on board, but by that time the mixes had already been swapped and new pressings of the 45s released. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 12 June 2020 at 2:04pm
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What Aaron said. Many songs wouldn't move the needle, then another song from the band would hit, and the very same previous single would come back and maybe chart higher than the hit that was originally made the singer / group famous.
People are funny: "I don't know this group / singer, so I don't like it. OK, now I know this group / singer, now I like it." :-D Ron, I'll have to look and see if I still have that aircheck. I thought it was done tastefully, and we were a Rock 40, and the cart in the control room DID list the intro as :48 seconds... :-) ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 12 June 2020 at 2:59pm
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Oh dear.
Some background for you non-radio people: Most radio stations started using CDs in the 1990-92 time frame (plus or minus a few years). At the top 40 where I was in 1990, the CD players were notoriously unreliable. It was a problem. At a different station in 1993, they used Denon CD players to play the promo CD singles on-air. Each disc was permanently housed in a box that looked a jewel box, and you'd insert the whole box into the CD player. Those players worked great. Anyway, before CDs, just about all the music was on "carts" (short for "cartridges"). They looked and operated like 8-track tapes - an endless loop of tape that would cue itself up when it was done. You could get carts as long as around 8 minutes, but there were lots of different lengths available for individual songs. The stations also had shorter carts for commericals, promos, station IDs, sweeper/bumpers, etc. For music, the production person would play a record once and record it to cart. The production person would then write or type a notation on the cart like this: 08/12 3:25/F That means that something interesting happens at the 8-second mark, and the song vocals kick in at 12 seconds. So we could use the timer on the board as a guide to know when to stop talking ("hit the post"). The 3:25 number was the time at which we dump the song, like when the fade starts. It's not the full time of the song, just the time that will appear on the clock when it's time to move on to the next song/ID/ etc. The "F" means that the song has a fade ending. "C" means that it's a cold ending. I suppose that there was also a "cold fade" ending, like when the band hits a bit last note of the song and that note fades, but I don't remember what the notation for that was. (Not many songs did that in the early '90s when I worked in top 40.) I would label "Stairway To Heaven" as: :13/26/53 7:57/C (I just listened to the song; that's not memorized.) The 0:26 point in the song isn't all that significant, and I might just use :13/53 instead. That's how the cart would have been labeled in Gene's old station. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 12 June 2020 at 6:03pm
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What Ron said. :-D ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 12 June 2020 at 7:57pm
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Allow me to continue to derail the original topic.
A local Top 40 radio station I worked at from 1983-1988 had Yamaha CD players around 1986 or so. The first in studio players were from Yamaha. There were issues of skipping and some discs over time not being able to be read properly. Eventually, these were replaced by the Technics SL-P1200 top load players. Still some issues but the pitch controls were cool though they were never used. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 12 June 2020 at 10:08pm
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Wasn't there a thriller type video made around the same
time as "Hungry Like The Wolf?" I seem to weakly remember a script that had a female slasher who stalked her victims while singing or, maybe it was playing in the background while she um, slashed? I think it may have had an effect on the song's airplay run. I seem to remember folks being turned off by the song and the images of the slasher flick. Maybe I'm just mis-remembering? |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 13 June 2020 at 5:43am
Those CD carts were definitely an improvement over just using the discs "naked", but they did cause some concentric scratches in the discs that could cause readability errors later on. The station I worked at for most of the 90s went directly from playing music from carts to a music-on- harddrive (in our case, Scott Studios) system, bypassing playing CDs directly. ISTR it being installed in 1994.
The stations I've worked at always used "cool" for a sustained cold ending, I've seen "natural" used as well.
How much influence did MTV have in '82/83? Cable wasn't as widespread back then, and not all systems carried MTV (or if they did, it was part of a "premium" package). ISTR that MTV was the coolest channel that not very many people could watch. I'd say at least as much of it was a sea change in the public's that taste occurred in the last half of 1982 and into 1983, along with the explosive comeback of Top 40, which had languished in the first couple years of the decade, much like what happened in late 1963. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 June 2020 at 5:54am
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Hykker, I think you’re also correct about changing tastes and the return
of top 40. MTV did, however, reach quite a few households by ‘83. I found this info: “Originally available to only 2.5 million subscribers, MTV cost Warner a modest $30 million to launch. By 1983 it was the highest- rated cable channel to date, reaching 13 million households, and by 1984 it was in the black.” In any case, it don’t think it was the original mixes of those Duran Duran songs that caused them to flop. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 13 June 2020 at 6:51am
It was a case of not getting airplay on MTV at the time in mid-1982. Keep in mind even when the video did get played it was heavily edited. The band was even touring in the US during July and August to promote Rio to no success. I also think Capitol promoting the band later vs Harvest and more distribution and promotion by Capitol helped compared to the mid-1982 release. PS: I didn't think revisiting this thread would lead to such in depth DJ discussions. Thanks everyone for educating us on what life was like before the digital CD age! PS 2: Personally Planet Earth and Girls On Film are great songs but the video for Girl on Film was way to explicit to make it here in the US. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 13 June 2020 at 6:54am
Welcome to the board! Don't recall a video like that. Sounds interesting though! ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: thecdguy
Date Posted: 13 June 2020 at 8:18am
Are you thinking of the Farrah Fawcett movie, "Small Sacrifices", which was based on a true story of a woman accused of killing her children? In the movie, the song is played at her trial. It was said to be her motivation for the murders. The movie came out in 1989, several years after the song was a hit, so it may not be what you're thinking of. And welcome to the board! ------------- Dan In Philly |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 13 June 2020 at 2:50pm
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You may be right Dan... I haven't got all the grey
matter I once had. Also, Thank you PopArchivist! I appreciate the cheery welcome! Dave from Saint louis. |
Posted By: VWestlife
Date Posted: 11 November 2020 at 5:12pm
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I'm too young to remember which version(s) of "Hungry Like the Wolf" were played on the radio when it was a current hit, but I have access to the music libraries of New York City radio stations WCBS-FM and WPLJ from the mid-2000s, and I can confirm that at least as of that time, WCBS-FM played the original UK album version, faded out a few seconds early to 3:35, while WPLJ played the original "non-hit" U.S. single version, again cut a little short to 3:21.
I certainly never recall hearing the prominent "cries of passion" that are on the "Night Version" and the 4:03 U.S. "hit" 45, at least since the 1990s, either because all the mainstream pop/rock stations I was listening to didn't play those versions, or because they faded it out early or had the DJ talk over the ending to cover it up. Maybe Alternative/Album Rock stations played the "Night Version" in its entirety, especially after hours when they were less stringent about profanity and adult content (hence the name "Night Version"!), but I wasn't listening to them. And as for talking over long intros, back in the '70s and early '80s when WPLJ was a Rock station, they played Al Stewart's "Year of the Cat" with a spoken introduction recorded by Al himself explaining what the song was all about, perfectly timed to end just before the vocals began. |
Posted By: Jackinbox
Date Posted: 27 December 2021 at 9:40pm
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I grew up hearing the 4:03 remix single version on the
radio (specifically WZPL Indianapolis). We certainly didn't get the Night Version as I would have remembered an into that long, and I definitely remember the "cries of passion" at the end. It was quite interesting to hear that again, as I'm pretty sure I've only heard the 3:23 mix aired for at least the last 20-30 years. |
Posted By: Jody Thornton
Date Posted: 28 December 2021 at 6:00am
Yes to me, the 4:03 remix WAS the definitive hit version, plus it had the loud yell/groan at the end during the fade. I think ever since that "Hits" package came out in the late 90s, the 3:23 has been opted for. ------------- Cheers, Jody Thornton (Richmond Hill, Ontario) |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 28 December 2021 at 9:03am
We played the 4:03 version where I worked in 1983. This station was a bit unique in where everything was on cart (not even any turntables in the control room!), and the board was wired in such a way that the tertiary tone on one cart would fire the next machine. Our music director liked tight segues, and he put the tone on HLTW about 2/3 of the way thru that final scream to make that the segue point, I think he may have ridden gain on the fade so it was still at full volume there. Sounded great on the air. Don't think I've ever seen another station with that setup...it was great during stopsets, bathroom runs, tend to the FM automation, or any of the other stuff DJs had to do during their shift. IIRC there were 5 cart machines and it cycled thru them sequentially. It was that way when I started working there in early '74. The mini-mation (as we called it) could be disabled if you wanted to run the board manually. Most of us did a mix of the two. The only thing it didn't do was to reset the timer, not sure why.
Well, we didn't play the long version so I can't comment on that, but our station wasn't so high intensity that jocks felt they had to post every single song. Say what you had/wanted to say and let the intro continue. Personally, I find Bill Lee's hit-every-single-post approach fatiguing at best, and mildly annoying at worst. If it works for him, fine, but it's not 1972 anymore. As far as posting a :78 intro, you could almost do a full newscast in that time, any decent Top 40 jock could do the the weather in :10. |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 29 December 2021 at 9:32am
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(More derailment)
I think the fastest weather I ever did was five seconds: "45 overnight, 72 tomorrow, 55 now at Z104.5!" (Rain chances would add a second... bleah.) ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 29 December 2021 at 7:30pm
It's revisionist history I tell ya. The 4:03 and 5:14 are both a bit too racy or long for radio nowadays. Almost all various artist comps seem to have made it the defacto version. PS I wonder if this song is the biggest one song specific thread on this board. It always seems to come back up at least once a year! ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 29 December 2021 at 7:47pm
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Nope, "How Will I Know" goes on for 5 pages. There may be other longer ones, but the Whitney thread was recently resurrected. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |