Boy Krazy "That’s What Love Can Do"
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Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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Topic: Boy Krazy "That’s What Love Can Do"
Posted By: EdisonLite
Subject: Boy Krazy "That’s What Love Can Do"
Date Posted: 15 May 2005 at 3:58pm
| The commercial CD single of "That's What Love Can Do" lists "radio" version, but as far as I can tell, it's simply a case of the left and right channels being switched, and a little brightness added, EQ-wise. To me, these don't warrant a "45 version" listing, but I'm wondering, does anyone know if there's anything else different in the single version than these 2 things? |
Replies:
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 16 May 2005 at 3:42pm
|
Question for Pat:
If a single differs from its album counterpart only in EQ (equalization), would this alone warrant "45 mix" and "LP mix" comments from you? Could you explain when you would use, say, the term "45 mix" as opposed to "45 version"? |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 16 May 2005 at 4:48pm
| Though I'm not Pat, I would like to give my 2 cents on this issue, Todd. Many CDs differ in equalization. Even this past year's Rhino CDs on Jackson Browne, Fleetwood Mac, Cher, etc. are much brighter than they are on older CDs or the 45s. But they wouldn't warrant any special mention because they are not mixed differently. It's the same mix, just re-EQ'd/mastered differently. So for different EQ's, I don't think terms like "45 mix" or "LP mix" would apply. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 16 May 2005 at 4:57pm
Very good point, EdisonLite. |
EdisonLite wrote:Posted By: Moderator
Date Posted: 16 May 2005 at 7:43pm
|
No, I don't feel "LP mix" should be used strictly based on a difference in equalization. I use LP mix to indicate that already existing instrumentation is either emphasized or reduced in volume compared to the 45 mix. ------------- Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 05 December 2010 at 8:36pm
| Does anyone have any promo single information regarding Boy Krazy's "That's What Love Can Do"? I distinctly remember hearing a radio edit on adult contemporary stations that eliminated most of the "chipmunk vocal" passage from 1:41-1:56. Any help here would be appreciated! |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 06 December 2010 at 6:50pm
|
Todd, we received in two CD singles for this song back in 1993. The first was simply the commercial CD single with a punched hole on the UPC symbol. We played Cut 1 (the one that you describe as including the "chipmunk vocal") at our station for the duration of its successful chart run. The second one was actually a promo, and Cut 1 on this CD, called "Gigolo Radio", sounded far inferior to us than Cut 1 on the other CDS, so we passed on it and stayed with the other one. And although "Gigolo Radio" does omit your "chipmunk" passage, Todd, it is a substantially different mix, with almost all of the constant, funky keyboard passages removed; much more of a drum/percussion dance beat was used here. I highly doubt that this was the version you heard in '93. Instead, I'm betting the station you heard that version on just did a "custom chop" on that "chipmunk" part for airplay; it's only four measures long. Just in case it might still help, here are all the CD single details:
-Boy Krazy--"That's What Love Can Do" (857 025-2) 1-Radio (listed 3:20; actual 3:22) 2-Club (listed & actual 6:46) 3-Dub Mix (listed & actual 4:59) 4-(a different song, "One Thing Leads To Another") -Boy Krazy--"That's What Love Can Do" (Remix) (CDP 891) 1-Gigolo Radio (listed 3:55; actual 3:49) 2-Mad Mad Club (listed 6:43; actual 6:35) 3-Gigolo Club (listed 6:34; actual 6:25) 4-Safe In The Hands Of Dub (listed & actual 4:38) |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 06 December 2010 at 7:53pm
|
We played the "radio" version from the CD single. That's the version on the promo discs Hot Hits DJ Pop Vol. 5 (a digital clone of the CD single with a teeny amount of compression added), Hot Hits Pop Vol. 20 (digitally identical to the other Hot Hits disc), Spotlight On Hits Pop Vol. 11 (slightly thinner EQ than others), and Top Hits RH17 (slightly shortened fade that begins in the same place as the others).
The "chipmunk vocal" gimmick in the bridge was a hallmark of the Stock Aitken Waterman late '80s productions - see "This Time I Know It's For Real" and "The Locomotion", for starters. This was the last US chart entry for SAW, and who knows how long it sat in the can before it was released here. A favorite of mine from 1993. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 06 December 2010 at 8:49pm
| Thanks, Jim and Ron. It sounds like the edit I remember hearing on AC stations must have been a custom one done in-house. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 07 December 2010 at 10:13am
| What hasn't been pointed out here (and I didn't realize this until a month ago when I bought the new reissue of the Boy Krazy CD) is that there were TWO DIFFERENT versions (mixes) of the album - the UK version and the US version. The UK version came out long before the US version and bombed there. So much time passed, that for the US version, most of (if not all of) the songs were remixed, giving it a funkier, more R&B vibe. Both mixes of "That's What Love Can Do" are included on this new reissued CD, released on Cherry Pop records. It's possible that what Jim describes as the "Gigolo Radio" mix is the original, UK version. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 07 December 2010 at 11:28pm
| Interesting info, Gordon... I wonder how much (if any) radio airplay the "Gigolo Radio" mix got in the U.S.? |
Posted By: Loveland
Date Posted: 05 September 2019 at 8:14pm
No one played the Gigolo Radio Mix. The U.S. mixes came out long after the song had peaked in the U.S. One has to wonder what was the point. The original version was released in 1991 via PWL / Polydor and only in the U.K. Like almost all PWL 1991 releases from new acts, it bombed. Original fifth member Renee Veneziale left soon after, although she completed most of the Boy Krazy album. In late 1991, HotTracks licensed the single for its inclusion on "NRG For The 90's Volume 8". Like most tracks appearing on their comps, it was re-edited (not remixed) in house, this time by Stephen L. Freeman. It was this mix that started to get heavy club play. Supposedly, one radio DJ heard the song and brought it to his station... maybe somewhere in MN? The radio station and DJ are given thanks on the album's liner notes. From there, Next Plateau licensed the track from Polydor U.K. (both labels were PGD labels at the time), promoting the single at the end of 1992, with a commercial release on early 1993. The HotTracks mix is just a re-edit of the original 1991 production. The Gigolo and the Mad Man mixes were remixed by Tony King and Dave Ford. After Boy Krazy's success in 1993, the single was released worldwide, utilizing the 1993 mix. It's the version that appears pretty much elsewhere, with the exception of the 2010. I guess PWL wanted more money, so why include the 1993 mix which features somebody else's mixing. The 1993 mixes do not appear on the 2010 reissue. |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 05 September 2019 at 8:28pm
| I was wondering what the story behind the 1991 mix I listened to was... thanks! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 06 September 2019 at 12:00am
| Yes, that's a very interesting backstory as to how this became a hit. |
Posted By: Loveland
Date Posted: 06 September 2019 at 1:13pm
|
It was KQKS (aka KS-104) in Denver, Colorado; now called KS-107.5. Once Next Plateau Records picked it up, the HotTracks re-edit was edited down to a radio version (as well as a dub).
After "Good Times With Bad Boys" bombed (quite possible the worst song on the album), Johnna Lee Cummings left the group, and the remaining three girls forged on as a threesome and were ready to record an album, but ultimately the group collapsed. And about Johnna Lee Cummings, well. I could say a lot of things, but... just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxAipty0ZEs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxAipty0ZEs |
Posted By: promojunkie
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 6:33am
|
The station I worked at back in 1993 used a unique mix
(at least I think it was only released on this disc) from Hitmakers Vol. 79 (December 4, 1992) It clocked in at 4:19 and I think was a hybrid of the club and radio version. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 8:22am
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What's also interesting to note is that this unique Hitmakers version is taken from vinyl. I don't think the 4:19 version was pressed on vinyl; I believe the person who created this edit for Hitmakers took the Club Mix from the 12" single to use as the source for the edit.
Ah, BUT, the "Radio" version on the official London/Next Plateau CD single is also very obviously taken from vinyl and has heavy dynamic range compression applied. Cut 2 on the CD single, however, is clearly not from vinyl, yet it has problems of its own. The "Club" version here sounds like it has improper noise reduction applied (the Dolby type). Lastly, I believe we might also have a 45 vs. LP difference to report. Early in the thread, Gordon pointed out that the "Radio" version is simply brighter and has the left and right channels swapped vs. the version on the full-length CD. I believe this to be incorrect, and I'm going to retrieve my Boy Krazy CD from storage to confirm. What I believe happened is that when it came time to release the CD in the US, someone knew that the "Radio" version didn't sound good and came from vinyl. The engineer then re-edited the longer version to match but made one goof on the intro. At the very least, the "Radio Mix" that is available digitally and is on the digital version of the Boy Krazy album has a slightly different intro and infinitely better sound quality. My theory is that this would technically be the "LP version" but I need to make sure it matches the 1993 full-length CD before I can say for sure. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 9:10am
|
OK, I can say for certain that my theory is not correct. I pulled the Boy Krazy full-length CD, and track 1 is the same "Radio" version but with the left and right channels swapped, as noted by Gordon in the first post of the thread. It's the same vinyl heavily compressed mastering as the CD single. I guess at some point in the digital era, a new "Radio Mix" was created that uses a non-vinyl source but has an editing difference in the intro. This re-edit can be found on digital versions of the full-length album as well as a 10-track digital single for "That's What Love Can Do." ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 11:55am
|
Aaron, do you think this is a case where it really was taken from vinyl, or like so many other recordings from the past 20 years, they add vinyl sounds either throughout (or during sections of) the song, for aural effects? Mark M and I talk about this frequently. We hate when modern recordings add annoying noise that we then have to remove, like we do with old records!
Also, do you know if this mix is on the deluxe 2-CD Boy Krazy set that came out in more recent years? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 12:47pm
It is without question taken from vinyl. I think this probably explains why:
If I had to guess, I'd say someone transferred the HotTracks vinyl copy and edited that version down to create the "Radio" version. I reconstructed the "Radio" version, and I can confirm the "Radio" version (aka 45/LP version) can be edited together using the "Club" and "Dub Mix" that appear on the 1993 US CD single. Although I didn't attempt using the 1991 UK Extended Mix, a quick listen tells me that the basic mix is the same. Quite possibly the 1993 "Club" mix is just a re-arranged version of the 1991 UK Extended Mix, which would mean the latter could also be used to re-construct the 1993 "Radio" version. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 25 May 2021 at 5:21pm
Just found the Hot Tracks version on a "Best Of" NRG for the 90's [Volume 2]. Though this disc is CD, it has a number of the original vinyl transfers. I might spend a few minutes listening to the differences. I'm guessing here, but I seem to remember the 1993 version having a much fuller sound. And, no chipmunks either. I guess there must have been a 12" Gigolo mix that they cut their remix from. Planning to rip this one down tonight before it falls victim to the rot factor. Lots of great mixes and extended versions! ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 May 2021 at 9:13am
|
Having re-constructed the "Radio" version from the UK mixes, I can now say with a fair amount of certainty how it came to be.
First, the original mixes were issued in the UK in 1991 on 12" and CD single (Extended Version and 7" Version). As mentioned earlier in the thread, Hot Tracks picked up the song for one of their club/DJ compilations. The version issued by Hot Tracks comes from the 1991 UK Extended Version but it was re-arranged, looped, re-edited, etc. Now that I've been able to compare the Hot Tracks version against the "Radio" version, I can say that not all the parts are there to create the latter. I believe the Hot Tracks edit was the inspiration, though, to create the hit "Radio" version when it was picked up by Next Plateau. Without question, the engineer for Next Plateau used the original UK 12" when editing it down for the "Radio" version (aka LP version aka 45 version aka hit version). It comes mostly from the Extended Version, with a short segment taken from the 7" Version, both found on the UK 12". There is a lot of sibilance and groove distortion throughout all CD copies of this version, as well as a bit of turntable rumble. I believe the other two mixes released on the US single ("Club" and "Dub Mix") are simply different edits of the 1991 UK Extended Version, but I haven't tried to reconstruct them. These are definitely from tape sources. I lost count of how many edits it took to make the "Radio" version, but it was probably around 15 or 20 edits. (I don't recommend trying it.) Apparently, that's what someone attempted to do in order to release a cleaner sounding version in the digital era. There is a digital download labeled "Radio Mix," which has also replaced the original vinyl-sourced edit on the full-length Boy Krazy CD. This can be found on iTunes, Spotify, Qobuz, etc. This edit closely resembles the "Radio" version, but some of the edits are wrong. At first, I tried using this version as a starting point and then fixing the mistakes. Just when I thought I had it, Ron pointed out yet another editing difference that I didn't catch. I then went back to the original CD-sourced UK mixes and re-edited it from scratch. While there are several remixes of this song, the original 1991 UK mix and 1993 hit version all come from the same mixes. Here's a summary: 1991 UK 7" Version (3:13) - begins with full instrumentation and fades out during a chorus 1991 UK Extended Version (7:10) - begins with acapella vocals and ends with drum beats 1991 Hot Tracks version (7:09) - begins and ends with drum beats; a re-edit of the UK Extended version 1992 Hitmakers version (4:18) - likely an edit of the Hot Tracks version; very obviously transferred from vinyl to tape for editing and poor sounding 1993 "Radio" version (3:20) - a combination of 1991 Extended Version & 7" Version; vinyl source used to create this edit by Next Plateau; begins with drum beats and fades out with drums and guitars only 1993 "Club" version (6:46) - a different re-edit of the 1991 UK Extended Version, inspired by the Hot Tracks edit; begins and ends with drum beats Digital-download-era "Radio Mix" (3:20) - an attempt at re-creating the 1993 "Radio" version, but some of the edits are not quite right ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 26 May 2021 at 10:06am
|
Aaron, that is some amazing detective work and always
amazing editing skills you possess! Perhaps, the 'Radio' version needs to be re-released as a Hard To Find selection on a future Eric Records release? ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 26 May 2021 at 2:20pm
I agree on Aaron's skills! It takes a lot of re-listening stamina. The kind that drives my family nuts when I mix things and then do it a few more times, for fun. Has ERIC had any discs that include 90's stuff? I could go check the site I suppose... ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: BSharp
Date Posted: 26 May 2021 at 2:22pm
|
I remember Kiss 108 in Boston playing a version of this
before it broke big nationally... it was radio-length but had a reversed snare effect during the instrumental breaks with vocal "doot" samples... do-do-dee-doot-doot... (reverse snare) doot. Look around and you will see... etc. Anyone know where this particular version can be found? I've searched for years... |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 May 2021 at 2:39pm
|
Yes, that's the version that appears on Hitmakers. Given that the song appears on a volume from December 1992, I'd guess the "Radio" version was not yet released. Perhaps Hitmakers was trying to get it to radio before Next Plateau had pressed up singles. As noted earlier, the Hitmakers edit is completely taken from vinyl (and it's not a good transfer). ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 26 May 2021 at 4:45pm
|
Outstanding work, Aaron!
You've managed to recreate, from a digital tape source, a version of the song that only previously existed with a vinyl record in the mastering chain! This is a nice companion piece to "I Can't Wait" by Nu Shooz, which has its own vinyl-based mastering story... ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 26 May 2021 at 6:01pm
Aaron, I went and pulled my Hitmakers 79 disc and at 1:38-ish it sounds like a skip or splice. I'm going to look at another source and see if this is there in a flac file I was given from a very gracious donor. Maybe I could fire up the audio editor and see what this looks like too. ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: BSharp
Date Posted: 26 May 2021 at 6:30pm
Any chance someone can send me a copy? That's one of a handful of versions that I'd love to hear just one more time. |
Posted By: BSharp
Date Posted: 27 May 2021 at 5:38am
|
Shout-out to AdvprosD for sending me the Hitmakers
version. I take back what I said about wanting to hear it just one more time... what a mess. LOL Still nice to give it one more listen. Thanks Dave! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 27 May 2021 at 10:13am
Those stutters/skips are an intended part of the audio. There's nothing wrong with your disc. I agree with BSharp that this edit is a mess. At the time, though, that may have been the only source available for stations who wanted to add the record early. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 27 May 2021 at 1:30pm
I agree now that I listened to the second set of "Chipmunk" samples. It sounds almost like the cut and pasted that again later in the song, then just changed up the second set a bit. I heard that odd skip again in the paste. I'm still planning to take some time to see what this looks like in an editor, just for kicks. I always thought the song was a catchy dance number when the DJ didn't play too much of it. Heh! You are very welcome BSharp! I hope you found something to cleanse your palette afterwards. ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: promojunkie
Date Posted: 27 May 2021 at 2:36pm
|
thanks to all who answered my original question! After
listening to my hitmakers disc again, it does sound rather awful. This was the version that was played on Kiss 108 - Medford/Boston back when I worked at the station. |
Posted By: BSharp
Date Posted: 27 May 2021 at 3:10pm
If you can come up with the version of "Too Turned On" by Alisha that Kiss played, I'll really be impressed. |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 28 May 2021 at 5:32pm
Check your PM. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |