"It’s a Miracle" Barry Manilow
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=252
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Topic: "It’s a Miracle" Barry Manilow
Posted By: EdisonLite
Subject: "It’s a Miracle" Barry Manilow
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 11:34am
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Pat,
The version of "It's a Miracle" you refer to as "LP version faded :16 early" is not accurate. There are 3 different mixes of the song -- one can be found on the 45, another on the LP, and a third "alternate" mix (missing horns) on the "Ultimate Manilow" CD. There are many differences between the 45 and LP mixes, but one very obvious one regards the background vocals in the opening line: "You wouldn't believe where I've been (OOH HOO HOO)" The "OOH HOO HOO" background vocals are on the 45 mix but not the LP mix. If you check the "Barry Manilow II" LP or CD, neither have those background vocals. (There are many other differences, too, like a bomb/explosion sound at the beginning of the bridge, but for the sake of this argument, it's easier just to cite one difference.) So the version on "The Essential" and "Greatest Hits" cannot be a faded version of the LP version since these recordings do have the "OOH HOO HOO" vocals. By "Greatest Hits", I mean the album with the beige album cover (1979), not "Greatest Hits Vol. 1" which came out in 1989 as part of a 3-volume series. Pat, we had a discussion about this song a while before the chat board was set up (and before "Essential" was released.) And we had a disagreement on the version of "It's a Miracle" on "Greatest Hits", as I recall. This makes me think you may have a different "Barry Manilow II" LP than what I have, or a different "Greatest Hits" CD than what I have. Or maybe even a different 45. So can people verify that the actual 45, "Essential" CD and "Greatest Hits" CD have the "ooh hoo hoo" background vocal in the opening line and that the "II" LP and CD do not? I have all 5 items in question so I am really trying to determine if different versions of the LP, 45 or CD are floating around. The version on "Essential" and "Greatest Hits" is the same mix as the 45, incidentally. It's not the LP mix. It happens to be longer than the 45. In fact, if you took this mix and did an edit, you would have the 45 -- mix, edit and all. So I think I would call this version "Extended version of the 45 mix." |
Replies:
Posted By: JMD1961
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 2:34pm
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I don't have access to either anymore, but I do believe two different versions of the 1979 Greatest Hits exist.
The reason I believe this is that I had a copy and so did a friend. On my copy, "Daybreak" was the studio version, while on his, it was the live hit version. As I said, both of these CD's are long gone now, so I can't do a side by side comparison on "It's A Miracle" for you, but I hope this information was at least a small help to you. |
Posted By: Moderator
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 8:27pm
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I agree with you on all points except one. Because of the longer instrumental introduction, I must call the version found on "Essential" and "Greatest Hits" (neither the 45 or LP version). ------------- Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 9:55am
I'm with Pat on this one, but for a different reason. You actually have to do two edits on that mix to get the 45. Here they are: 1. Edit the opening instrumental passage from about 7.5 seconds in to about 15 seconds in. 2. At the point after Manilow sings "Now you're here and I'm feelin' so good and baby they'll be. . ." edit the "dancing in the street" from the 2:14 mark to the one at about 2:34. That gives you a song that runs 3:16, which give or take a second is the 45 length. Doug |
EdisonLite wrote:Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 12:10pm
| Yes, that's all correct. I guess calling the version on "Essential" the extended 45 mix is wrong in the sense that it is not simply longer on the tail end. Amongst my friends, we refer to this version this way because you can extract the exact 45 version from the version on "Essential" (and older "Greatest Hits" CDs). It's as if they took the original tapes for the LP version, added new instruments, remixed the new version, and got this new mix which matches in length the original LP version. They then took this version and did 2 edits to create the 45 version. Since the 45 version has never been on CD, the only way to get it on CD is to edit this longer version, from which the 45 editing came from. Is there a more precise term to refer to this version to be clearer as to what it is -- I don't mean in terms of Pat's notation, which for his book should be called "neither the 45 or LP version". But "alternate mix" or "alternate version" is so general, I just wonder if there's a clearer way to label this version since it's the same mix as the 45 version, only unedited. "Extended version of the 45 mix" isn't correct because that implies it just goes on LONGER than the 45, right? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 17 September 2005 at 2:46pm
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Yeah, I edited the version on "Essential" myself as well. It's quite an easy edit with no fade to duplicate. I think editing a fade to exactly match a 45 is harder than anything.
I suppose you could call the "Essential" version "LP length 45 mix." |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 9:30am
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How about "unedited 45 mix" or "unabridged 45 mix"?
And I totally agree with you, Brian.... Trying to fade out a CD to exactly match the ending of a 45 is the most tedious and time consuming aspect of replicating a single version from CD! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 11:54am
This would be confusing to me if I read it, and so would "LP length 45 mix." My vote for situations like these is "neither" or "remixed" or something to that effect. |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 1:00pm
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Hi All!
Happy to chime in here and confuse matters further. :-) I recently was chatting with EdisonLite about this track since it was his info about it that helped me identify all the different versions. Before this, I was unaware that the actual 45 "MIX" (even tho unedited) was available on a U.S. CD. Since then I did the above mentioned edit to create the 45. In my opinion, it would be helpful if my book said "45 Mix, but longer" or "neither the 45 or LP version, but same mix as 45". If it only says "remixed" I will assume it is not the hit version, remixed at a later time. And if it only says "neither..." I will also assume it brings me no closer to having the "Hit" mix. One extra note; while working on the track I synched up all the different versions to note the differences. The mix on "Greatest Hits Vol One" listed as "alternate" - "alternate mix" would be accurate, but in oldies-collector terms we'd refer to it as an "underdub" as it is a previously unreleased incomplete mix, missing overdubs (horns, and some vocals) that were on the LP version. But it is the same take, just unfinished. Happy listening, all. -Mark M |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 6:56pm
| I agree with Mark M. His suggestion makes more sense. |
Posted By: BillyDee203
Date Posted: 11 June 2006 at 2:09pm
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A related question would be, does this version still sport the narrow stereo
imaging of the original single issue? |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 11 June 2006 at 2:17pm
Coulda fooled me. Really. Barry Manilow's vocal on that version in certain parts sounds drastically different. I'm thinking specifically about the part on the single where Manilow goes into a bit of a falsetto on the "dancing in the stre-ee-eee-eee-eeet" line leading into the instrumental break (don't remember if it's on the LP version as well). He doesn't come close to doing that on the underdub take (in fact, much of the vocals leading up to that are different as well). Maybe I just don't understand the process of overdubbing (or underdubbing), but it seems to me that the differences are too drastic. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 11 June 2006 at 5:47pm
| I was able to easily create the 45 version by editing the "Essential" version in two places, one on the intro, and one near the bridge. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 07 September 2010 at 7:17pm
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Comparing the various versions I have...
The Essential Barry Manilow has the 45 mix, which can be easily edited down to the true 45 version. It's a pretty narrow stereo mix. The Complete Collection And The Some box has the same vocal take as the 45, but is missing some of the overdubs. I assume this is the LP mix? It's also pretty narrow stereo. Greatest Hits Vol. 1 (10-track CD released in 1989) has the "underdone" version, mixed with a similar instrumentation to the LP mix but with the lackluster vocal take. It seems like a wider mix than the other mixes - was this a new mix done for the GH CD, but using the wrong vocal take? |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 08 September 2010 at 8:08am
The answer is Yes, and just for clarity, Billy was referring to the long version of the 45 mix (the one with the "ooh hoo hoo" background vocals after line 1, but the longer intro and unedited chorus #2). Both the "45 mix" and the "45 mix but longer in the intro and Chorus #2) are the same narrow stereo (virtually mono), and no version of this mix has ever been released that is wide stereo. Luckily, M Mathews did some studio trickery and managed to expand the near-mono 45 mix and create a quite-wide stereo version of the 45 mix, which I have (though it's not as wide as the LP mix, in case anyone's going to ask that.) |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 10 September 2010 at 6:06pm
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Hi again,
Haven't sen this thread in years... i left Doug's question unanswered above about the overdubbing. It's been years since i synched the 2 versions to check but what i recall is most of the "under-done" version was the same take, they just kept adding elements to it to get the LP version we know. This "under-dubbed" version was likely pulled in error because of how it was labeled. It may have been worded in such a way they thought it was simply an earlier generation tape with better sound for cd release. Anyway, after the LP was released, i guess they again took that master back to another studio and added still more elements to create the hit mix, from which the 45 was edited. This would include Barry adding his extra "dancing in the street" part, double tracked as well. To my ears, it sounds like they wanted to use whatever board or studio they had used in the past to get that very specific "big tunnel" reverb sound, but the elements processed with it are in mono. The remaining backing instruments are mixed left and right but very low. And yes i did make a somewhat-expanded stereo mix of this, but i'll tell ya, i don't even mind they sacrificed some of the stereo to make this 45 mix. Because the extra production and mixing they did really brought this song to life! -MM |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 14 September 2010 at 9:43am
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You're forgiven, Mark. :)
Fair to say that would seem to be where the 1978 Greatest Hits LP version came from? Of course, after all these years, isn't it about time Arista/BMG actually put the correct 45 version of "It's A Miracle" on a CD somewhere (like they finally did for "Could It Be Magic")? ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 12:31pm
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It's about time BMG/Arista released a complete singles CD set from the correct 45 single masters. Too many of Barry's best work in singles versions are unavailable on CD. And many of these 45 singles are getting hard to find nice pressings of in well cared for condition. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 12:52pm
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Legacy/BMG finally issued the 45 version of "Could It be
magic" after not being available on CD since the mid-80s. ------------- |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 6:29pm
Yes, they did that a while ago on the Essential CD. Now we just need them to do that for "It's A Miracle" and "The Old Songs" ("Copacabana" and "Mandy" are fairly common or not as hard to find, and "I Write The Songs" is just an early fade--I think most of his other major hits the 45 and LP versions are the same). ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 9:32pm
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I need to sit down and recreate the single edit of "It's A
Miracle". ------------- |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 7:37pm
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On Oct. 12th there is a new Barry Manilow "Playlist" disc due for release. The track list on amazon says it will be fourteen tracks total, but half never even hit the Top 40. Looks like another wasted opportunity by Sony Legacy. I would have included the 45 versions of "It's A Miracle" and "The Old Songs" plus the ellusive "Oh Julie." ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 30 September 2010 at 9:36am
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I'm told from inside sources that Barry hates "Oh Julie" and has final say on every compilation CD that Arista/Sony puts out, and he simply doesn't allow this song to make it to CD (not even one time.) That's why the boxed set from the '90s (which would have been the perfect place) doesn't even have it. I actually like the song a lot. Luckily, it's found one place on CD - the Japanese '94 CD release of the '82 "Here Comes the Night" album. But be careful - there's also a Japanese '88 CD release of the album, and it contains "Oh Julie" with a lot more instruments and voices added on top of the original mix. It's actually a "fuller" mix in terms of overall aesthetics, but of course, most of us completists want the original mix on CD. For a time, I liked both mixes equally, but now I'm favoring the "fuller" mix a bit, even though it wasn't the official mix, and nobody still seems to know where that came from. I assume it was mixed in '82, and that Barry & Arista decided to chuck it and simply use the stripped down mix.
I'm not surprised "The Old Songs" single edit (with a few seconds cut out) hasn't been released on CD, but it IS surprising the actual edited single mix of "It's a Miracle" hasn't made it to one CD. As for "Could It Be Magic" single mix/edit making it to CD, that's because of one person I know in L.A. that was somewhat involved with the project and informed them about the single mix/edit and really pushed for it to be included. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 30 September 2010 at 9:54am
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I wonder if he also influenced them to include the 45
version of "Copacabana" too. ------------- |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 30 September 2010 at 2:48pm
As far as I know, the only Manilow CD that has the short 45 of "Copacabana" is his 1978 Greatest Hits album (the Foul Play soundtrack doesn't count--that wasn't a Barry Manilow album per se). Every other CD of his either uses the long 45 or the (4:04) Even Now vinyl LP version. Which reminds me, Pat never did change the notation for all (4:04) versions of "Copa"--those versions are all the Even Now vinyl LP version (while the Even Now CD uses the long 45 version). ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 30 September 2010 at 5:03pm
| A couple years ago, I found the 3:54 short 45 version on Rhapsody. It's labeled as a Dance Vault Mix EP. It may also be on iTunes. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 30 September 2010 at 5:04pm
| I was speaking above of "Copacabana." |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 30 September 2010 at 6:22pm
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It is indeed on iTunes, although I would consider any of the Arista Dance Vault mixes to be more like CD singles as opposed to albums. But, yeah, the short and long 45s of "Copacabana" are on that EP, plus the Spanish short and long 45s as well. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 30 September 2010 at 6:27pm
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I keep making that mistake. It's not on the Essential BM.
Disregard. ------------- |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 01 October 2010 at 10:24am
Have the Spanish short or long 45s of "Copa" been on any CD - or just digitally on iTunes? |