"Leaving Me" - The Independents
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Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2599
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Topic: "Leaving Me" - The Independents
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Subject: "Leaving Me" - The Independents
Date Posted: 23 October 2007 at 10:01am
| According to the database, CD entries for The Independent's "Leaving Me" range widely from 3:07 to 3:21, yet there are currently no associated comments to help explain the run time discrepencies. Does anyone have the vinyl 45 or the parent LP who can pass along the song's run time info? Once again, I'm wondering if there's a length, edit, or speed difference between the 45 and LP. |
Replies:
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 23 October 2007 at 5:19pm
| My commercial 45, which is stereo, has both a listed and actual time of (3:20). |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 30 July 2013 at 9:03pm
|
An FYI... "Leaving Me" is a real mess on the Soul Hits of the '70s, Vol. 10 various artists CD (Rhino 70790). According to my notes, it's mastered from vinyl, is missing the opening drum hits, runs much faster than the 45 speed, and fades out early.
By the way, I notice there's one database CD where this song is in mono and runs 3:15. Since commercial 45 copies were issued in stereo, is the CD in question reflective of a mono DJ length perhaps? |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 30 July 2013 at 9:18pm
|
Not unless there were two different promo 45s issued for this song back in
early 1973, Todd. My promo 45 includes "Leaving Me", in stereo, on one side of it, with the same song that's also included on the stock 45's flip ("I Love You, Yes I Do") on the other side of my promo. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 30 July 2013 at 9:54pm
| Jim, your promo 45 info is consistent with every copy I've seen online to date, all of which have been marked "stereo". It's possible the lone mono appearance on CD is nothing more than a fold down of the stereo mix. Why the audio engineer would master it this way though, I have no idea. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 30 July 2013 at 11:56pm
|
Todd, common sense tells me that a CD engineer wouldn't have folded
down a stereo master to mono, for CD inclusion. I find it always helps me to put myself in the label's shoes. At the time. It is late 1972. Quite possibly *the* first year when 50.1% of 45s were issued in stereo, not mono. Some labels were quicker to switch to stereo stock/promo 45s than others. This issue was on every label's "table" at the time. And, as we both already know, via our "yearly mono/stereo 45s threads", in 1972/73, different labels came to different decisions on what to make available. To both the public and to radio. I find it quite plausible that whoever was preparing "Leaving Me" for 45 release initially prepared a mono mix for it. Many labels had already been issuing promo 45s as mono/stereo. But very few in stereo only. Isn't it quite likely that this particular engineer created an original, mono "Leaving Me" master, just assuming that one would be required? But it never was. So here it was, sitting in some tape vault, unused, all these years, until someone pulled it and dubbed it off, for a CD licensing request. My best guess? It was that unused mono mix, making its worldwide CD debut! Due to simple carelessness. More background. Label owner Florence Greenberg, (or someday else at Scepter/Wand) had made the decision to "freshen up/modernize" their 45s for 1973. 1972 was a major transitional time at her label. Her #1 artist, Dionne Warwick, left to sign with WB. Her #2 artist, B.J. Thomas, had his last Top 40 for Scepter, in very early '72, and he would soon leave to sign with Paramount (and later ABC/MCA, Columbia, etc.) By late '72, the label's future was by far as tenuous as it had been since before the Shirelles started having hits in 1961. Just throwing it out there for you, good buddy! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 31 July 2013 at 7:44am
|
I think Jim is quite possibly correct with his theory. The only other thing
I'll add as a possibility is that the CD contains a vinyl dub, and the engineer purposely folded it to mono. This happened with the Carole Bayer Sager CD, as well as a few copies of "Forever" by Tierra. I may have mentioned this before, but vinyl dubs sound better when folded to mono, since some of the noise cancels out. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 31 July 2013 at 12:28pm
|
Anyone know if the versions available on iTunes are legit? They run (3:21) or thereabouts and they come from a company called Gusto Records (but they say "original Wand recordings" on the CD JPG image). (I only have the (3:10) version from the Rhino disc.) ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 31 July 2013 at 7:41pm
I suppose one way to test your theory, Jim, would be to do a fold down of the commonly available stereo mix on CD and then compare it to the mono CD appearance to see whether they match up or not. I don't have the lone mono CD in question, however, and at this juncture it's really not even on my "Wish List" given that all promo and commercial copies of this song appear to have been issued in stereo. |
jimct wrote:Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 01 August 2013 at 2:49am
|
Todd, your last sentence has got to be the truest thing you've ever said on
this board!!!! You ask just so many deeply detailed questions, about so many different songs. You know I always try and help you, as best I can. But in truth, I usually can't keep up. What vitamins do you take? :) I've already told you over the phone, that my nickname for you is "The Inquisitor!" All I know is that if you worked for the FBI or the CIA, 1) they'd need more staff, and 2) they'd solve a heck of a lot more crimes! |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 01 August 2013 at 10:36pm
|
LOL! Well, as you know, Jim, I make copious amounts of notes over time while working on my numerous (and seemingly endless) music-related projects. I usually try to only post a few items at a time so as to not overwhelm the forum, though occasionally I'll unload a string of inquiries at once in an eager bid to "clear out the queue" and help uncover and solve as many Top 40 mysteries as possible with the assistance of my fellow music collectors.
As for being "The Inquisitor", interestingly this trait really doesn't seem to extend very far beyond the Top 40 music universe for me. For instance, it's funny how I can zero in on a :03 run time discrepancy with laser-like precision, yet it may take me weeks before noticing a new piece of decor that my wife brings home! |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 05 August 2013 at 5:28pm
|
todd....just sent you a wave file of the song from the
'whole lotta soul cd 72-73' for your review.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 05 August 2013 at 5:54pm
Gusto/Starday (GML) owns much of the Scepter/Wand catalog. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 05 August 2013 at 8:02pm
Thanks, Tom. Good to know for the future. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 08 August 2013 at 8:17pm
|
todd, i appreciate your detailed review and effort in
getting to the bottom of all these 45 differences.....KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!! ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 15 March 2015 at 10:09pm
|
ditto what ed wrote about todd. It's what makes this board so
rewarding, is that it takes a combined effort from us to get the database as accurate as possible pointing out as many differences in the released versions of these hits. I came across this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR7QMhVaTiI Notice the missing opening drumbeats. Not knowing how many drumbeats were on the parent LP, perhaps this is where Rhino mastered their version for "Soul Hits". I also notice the opening piano is mixed louder in this version than my other version. ------------- dc1 |