Journey - "Separate Ways"
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=336
Printed Date: 14 May 2025 at 12:45am
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Topic: Journey - "Separate Ways"
Posted By: Brian W.
Subject: Journey - "Separate Ways"
Date Posted: 19 July 2005 at 1:52am
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This CD isn't listed in Pat's book, since it's a Columbia House CD, but "Gold & Platinum Hits of the '80s Vol. 1" has what is apparently the 45 version of Journey's "Separate Ways." It runs an actual 4:26, but Whitburn lists 4:21, so I don't know. It has a cold ending. (BTW, this disc is also the only time I've ever seen "Say Say Say" on a compilation CD.)
Anyone have the 45 of "Separate Ways" who can verify? |
Replies:
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 19 July 2005 at 3:16am
| I just checked this one a few months ago. The 45 actually does run (4:26), but the label says (4:21). |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 19 July 2005 at 5:35am
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yes.....the gold & platinum cd does contain the actual 45 version of seperate ways by journey ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 19 July 2005 at 8:45am
| Interesting... Has anyone found any other 45 versions on a Columbia House CD compilation that aren't available anywhere else? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 19 July 2005 at 12:32pm
| Great... thanks, guys. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 05 January 2007 at 11:35pm
| According to the database, DJ copies of the "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)" 45 run 4:24. Since the song ends cold, does this mean then that the song plays at a slightly faster pitch on DJ 45 copies than on commercial 45 copies? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 1:14am
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Perhaps commerical copies also run (4:24). There isn't a note for the run time of commercial copies. It's possible that the (4:27) CD appearance is slightly slower than the 45 version.
A while back, I did a custom edit of this one using the LP version. If you match the edits up correctly, it times out to (4:27) at the LP speed. I didn't match the pitch with the 45 copy I was using, because the difference was very slight, and I thought it might just be that the turntable speed was off. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 1:23am
| Gentlemen, I have both the promo and stock 45s for "Separate Ways". Hoping to get to the bottom of this, I will stopwatch both of them tomorrow, and report back my findings. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 7:00am
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Aaron:
I talked to Ed about the commercial 45 and he confirms it's identical to the CD appearance, so I took this to mean that the run times are identical as well. But since he didn't specifically state his vinyl 45 time, we don't know on which source, if any, the speed difference occurs. We'll see what Jim finds out after he compares his promo and commercial 45. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 12:42pm
| Guys, my stock 45 and both sides of my promo 45 all show a listed time of (4:21), and all have an actual time of (4:24). My stock 45 deadwax is ZSS-170770-1B, while my promo 45 deadwax is the same, ZSS-170770-1B on one side, and ZSS-170770-1A on the other. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 3:24pm
| So that means the (4:27) version runs at the LP speed, which is probably less than 1% slower than the 45. Would this warrant a "45 version but slower" comment? Where do you draw the line? I'm sure there are hundreds of examples of ever-so-slight speed variations. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 3:27pm
| I appreciate the confirmation, Jim. It appears we can now conclude then that although the version of "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)" appearing on the Gold & Platinum Hits of the '80s Vol. 1 is the correct 45 version, it plays at a slightly slower speed than the DJ and commercial 45. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 3:35pm
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Aaron:
In my opinion, a :01 or :02 difference in speed would probably be too insignificant to warrant a "45 version but slower" comment, much like a :01 or :02 difference in run time length would be widely considered too inconsequential to warrant a comment like: ":01 (or :02) shorter than the 45 length". But if we're talking about a discrepency of :03 or more in speed, then I think it starts to become significant enough where a listener very familiar with the song might begin noticing the pitch difference. I'd say this will be best left up to Pat to make a judgment call here. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 January 2007 at 4:19pm
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I like your line of thinking, Todd; however, I would like to add that a :01 or :02 difference in speed would be significantly different for a short song than it would be for a long song.
For instance, three seconds on that 4 1/2 minute Journey song would not be nearly as noticable as three seconds on a 2:15 oldie. Three seconds off the 2:15 song would be like taking SIX seconds off the Journey song. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 07 January 2007 at 6:51pm
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todd.....i disagree......i just listened to the 45 compared to the "gold & platinum" cd and they are identical to me......they both run 4:26.....if there is a speed issue it is so slight that it does not warrant mention......pat.....you should remove the speed qualifier from the database..... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 07 January 2007 at 9:28pm
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jimct wrote:Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 07 January 2007 at 10:12pm
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jim.......my commercial 45 has on the deadwax area "zss - 170770 - 1a" on side a with the song "separate ways (worlds apart)"....this is different than what is mentioned above...can i send you an mp3 of the 45 for your review?.....maybe mine is the same as you promo B-side.....lmk if i can send to you... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 07 January 2007 at 10:23pm
| Ed: I also have that "Gold & Platinum" CD. I'm gonna be mailing out a parcel to a certain Board expert on Friday anyway, and I will now make sure I include my ZSS-170770-1A promo 45 (which matches you commercial 45 deadwax), and a "Gold & Platinum" CD-R dub of it, for evaluation/analysis. He'll be able to work out the (4:24) vs (4:26) timing gremlins for us. No big deal, really. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 12 August 2008 at 5:11pm
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It's been over a year and a half since Jim's post regarding whether the commercial 45 of Journey's "Separate Ways (World's Apart)" runs 4:24 or 4:26. Well, I've consulted our good friend from Japan, abagon, about the timing info on his stock copy and was hoping he could settle this once and for all. His verdict... The actual 45 run time is 4:25, not 4:21 as stated on the record label! LOL Perhaps we should just go with his 4:25 time since it falls right in between Jim's 4:24 and Ed's 4:26? :-)
It really makes no difference to me which of the times we go with, but I think it would be nice to see commercial 45 run time info included in the database along with the DJ info. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 19 December 2008 at 11:08am
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john just did a super job of speeding up of the gold and platinum cd version and it NOW matches my 45 perfectly and runs 4:25.....THANKS JOHN!!!!...sorry for the delay in reporting....my cd burned was broken and i just got the new one today....my 45 states a run time on the label of 4:21 but actually runs 4:25.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 19 December 2008 at 6:16pm
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Back when I went through the '80s tracks, I noticed that the version on Gold & Platinum was the correct edit but the wrong speed, compared with the 45.
I did my own edit to recreate the 45, based on the version from the Time boxed set. I didn't keep super-detailed notes as to how much to remove from the album version, but there should be edit points in your 45 version at 0:14, 1:42, 3:29 and 4:10. Hope that helps. |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 02 February 2011 at 6:11pm
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I just did the edit myself. The 45 version is the same as the 1983 video so you can use that as a reference.
Man is that a goofy video. |
Posted By: Ron S
Date Posted: 21 January 2019 at 6:10pm
Faster by how much? I wish the sound quality was better on it.. The ones on the other CDs that are the LP version sound so much better than the Gold & Platinum 45 version. |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 03 May 2020 at 8:38pm
It is a classic 80's video made on a low budget with no special effects. I know we don't mention much of what is going on in the outside world, but I could not help but mention this quarantined family out of boredom decided to recreate that goofy video. Please help me if I get that bored... https://vimeo.com/404483016 - https://vimeo.com/404483016 ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 05 January 2021 at 9:23pm
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The that the edit points I listed 12 years ago (!) are incorrect; I fix those in the post below.
In 1992, Priority Records released a compilation called The 80's Greatest Rock Hits Volume 3 Arena Rock, which included the 45 edit of Journey's "Separate Ways". Here's a https://www.discogs.com/release/2533368 - Discogs entry of the original release (Priority P2 7074) . It runs 4:25 on this disc, in case we want to enter it into the database. At some point (1994? at least judging by the matrix number), Priority lost the rights to Journey tracks, and reissued Volumes 1 and 3 of this series with replacement tracks. Here's a https://www.discogs.com/release/6861295 - Discogs entry of the rerelease (Priority P2 53715) . Note that the rerelease of this disc has a mastering error that introduces a one-sample delay between the left and right channels on tracks 1-3 and 5-9 (i.e., the tracks in common between the two releases). The mastering is otherwise identical between the two releases, except for the delay. (I confirmed by null tests and "OOPS" tests for all 8 tracks. If you would like to confirm one of these tests, use Loverboy's "Lovin' Every Minute Of It" and focus on the lead vocals. These lead vocals are essentially mono, and virtually disappear in the OOPS test for the original release, but not this rerelease.) Ah, Priority Records... the surprises never end. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 06 January 2021 at 9:48am
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LP version
I have the LP version on Columbia's Journey Greatest Hits (1988), where it runs 5:24 and sounds just fine. The 1996 rerelease of GH is just a differently-EQ'd digital clone of the 1988 version. There's a different analog transfer on Columbia's Journey 3-CD Time (1992), where it also runs 5:24 and also sounds just fine. The very end of the fade has a little noise that's cut shorter on Time, which is pretty insignificant. The Time set is relatively inexpensive, and is my preferred mastering for the song, although there really isn't much difference between Time and the 1988 GH. Both have great dynamic range, nice EQ, and no evidence of any added noise reduction. If you're going to use GH to recreate the 45 edit, the timings will be later by about 0.2 seconds and the beginning of the song and about 0.5 seconds at the end of the song. (GH runs about 0.08% slower than Time, which is completely insignificant under normal circumstances.) 45 version I don't know the actual speed at which the 45 runs, so I'm going to assume that the speed on Time is correct. Using Time as the source, here are editing instructions for creating the 45 edit: Segment 1 Begins on opening keyboard note, which is on a downbeat 40 beats long Ends on a downbeat Extends from 0:00 to 0:18.3 of LP version and 45 version Remove the 16 beats from 0:18.3 to 0:25.6 of the LP version. Segment 2 Begins on a downbeat 180 beats long Ends on a downbeat Extends from 0:18.3 to 1:41.4 of the 45 version Extends from 0:25.6 to 1:48.6 of the LP version Remove the 16 beats from 1:48.6 to 1:55.9 of the LP version. Segment 3 Begins on a downbeat 236 beats long Ends on a downbeat Extends from 1:41.4 to 3:29.1 of the 45 version Extends from 1:55.9 to 3:43.6 of the LP version Remove the 32 beats from 3:43.6 to 3:58.1 of the LP version. Segment 4 Begins on a downbeat 96 beats long Ends on a downbeat Extends from 3:29.1 to 4:12.4 of the 45 version Extends from 3:58.1 to 4:41.5 of the LP version Remove the 64 beats from 4:41.5 to 5:10.4 of the LP version. Segment 5 Begins on a downbeat 24 beats long Ends on the last note Extends from 4:12.4 to 4:26.3 (with outro silence) of the 45 version Extends from 5:10.4 to 5:24.3 (with outro silence) of the LP version Your mixdown will run 4:26, with edits at 0:18.3, 1:41.4, 3:29.1, and 4:12.4. I know of just three CDs that include the 45 version. The oldest is Realm's mail-order Gold And Platinum (1986), which runs 4:27. Here, it runs about 0.33% slower than Time. It doesn't sound great here; the high end is pretty muffled. Still, it has a great dynamic range and no evidence of added noise reduction. Next, it's on the original pressing of Priority's Eighties Greatest Rock Hits Vol. 3 Arena Rock (1992), where it runs about 0.29% faster than Time. It sounds pretty good here, which is a pleasant surprise for a release on Priority. Decent dynamic range (although it's a little loud and clips a bit), good EQ, and no evidence of any added noise reduction. Priority lost the rights to Journey tracks (sometime around 1994), and rereleased this disc, replacing "Separate Ways" with a Pat Travers song. It's also on a UK promo disc called BBC Hits Of '83, where it has a severely muffled high end. I didn't like the sound here. My recommendations For the LP version, I like Columbia's Journey 3-CD Time (1992), but the 1988 release of Greatest Hits will work just fine. For the 45 version, I made my own edit from Time, using the instructions above. (If the Realm disc runs too slow, and the Priority disc runs too fast, then Time runs just right. Goldilocks and all that.) ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |