Laser Rot and warped CD-Rs
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Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=364
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Topic: Laser Rot and warped CD-Rs
Posted By: aaronk
Subject: Laser Rot and warped CD-Rs
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 7:36pm
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Although this topic has nothing to do with versions of songs or top 40 music at all, I am wondering if anyone else has experienced the dreaded "laser rot." This is an annoying static-like noise that plagues older CDs, and sometimes it is so bad that the CD player cannot even read the disc.
Although I haven't read any official literature on this topic, I would have to guess that it's from corrosion on the metal part of the disc, perhaps from moisture attacking the metal layer over time. Thankfully, I have not yet found any of my personal CDs with this syndrome; however, I have run across old discs at various radio stations I worked at (discs manufactured before 1990) that have "laser rot." Is there anyone with similar experiences or further knowledge of what causes this? I thought CDs were supposed to last a lifetime! (Ha! Yeah, right.) One more thing... I have run into a similar issue with older CD-Rs. I have some that I burned back in 1997, and the discs have "bowed" in the middle, giving it a slight warp. (In other words, if you set the disc label side down on a flat surface, the center doesn't even come close to touching the surface.) When I play back the outside tracks from these discs, I get the same sound as a cd with "laser rot." Has anyone run into this problem? |
Replies:
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 03 August 2005 at 7:49pm
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I can't recall encountering this on any factory-pressed CDs, though my DVD of Hitchock's "Vertigo" will not even boot up on any player, and it used to play fine. Not a scratch on it, either.
I have had CD-Rs go bad on me, all Memorex. Some I burned just about three years ago will no longer play. But I have other Memorex CD-Rs older than that that play fine. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 10:39am
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do you ever get cdr's that have really loud pops on them........i've got some cdrw that get static but i just thought they were getting worn out..........ii have old cdrs that i made on my old philips cdr that pop a lot... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 10:55am
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I don't have any CD-Rs that have consistant "pops" throughout; however, it doesn't surprise me that you've discovered this. CDs aren't as long-lasting as once thought.
Also, I looked up the phenomenon called "laser rot" online (also called "cd rot" and "cd deterioration), and there is such a problem. Here's a summary: CDs that were not manufactured very well (mainly reported on discs manufactured in the early to mid 80s) have a problem where the laquer coating over the information layer does not seal the aluminum in very well. The laquer "seal" could also be damaged from scratching the top surface or bending the disc. When this happens, air and moisture comes in contact with the aluminum information layer and actually corrodes it, just like rust can corrode iron. Sometimes you can see the damage, and sometimes you can only hear it. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 04 August 2005 at 3:01pm
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Ed, if there's anything on those old "popping" CDRs that are valuable, I would suggest copying them to new CDRs as soon as possible... sounds like they are starting to go bad...
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Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 6:43am
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also, make sure never to use any of those adhesive label making kits. I
learned the hard way that they throw your CD off balance and make them unplayable—I recorded all my vinyl onto hundreds of CDs, and then went back to play them and found none of them would play for more than 5 minutes. As ugly as it is, all my remade CDRs are now simply labeled by hand with Sharpies. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 4:17pm
| I wouldn't label them with Sharpies, either, unless they're specifically made for labeling CDs. I hear they can eventually cause the aluminum layer to deteriorate. |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 06 August 2005 at 8:40am
| aarrgghh! Brian, do you know of any safe method of labeling them? I see a lot of re-burning in my future... |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 06 August 2005 at 12:56pm
| Well, they do make pens that say they're safe for labeling CDs. I don't know... |
Posted By: JMD1961
Date Posted: 07 August 2005 at 5:14am
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How about the new "printable" CDs that you can label with a inkjet printer? Any word on problems with those?
And on the popping thing... I once made my own Van Halen compilation, but for some reason, every time I burned it, a loud pop was created between the tracks "I'll Wait" and "Panama". (It wouldn't be there when I played the line-up back on my computer.) Finally, I reversed the order of the two tracks, and the pop disappeared. Anyone know why this one happened? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 07 August 2005 at 11:03am
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I actually use the inkjet printable CDs, but I've only had my printer for a few months, so I have no problems to report this early.
JMD, as for your problem with the "pops" between tracks, I can only speculate what the problem could have been. Every second of CD audio has 75 frames. When you edit a wav file and the length of the song changes (even if by only a thousandth of a second), the audio most likely will no longer end on a whole frame--it ends in the middle of a frame. I've had an issue with some older software when I used the "track-at-once" burn method. If I edited the song and it didn't end on a whole frame, the software would put a big "click" at the end of the audio to fill up the rest of the frame. Again, this only happened in "track-at-once" mode and only on my old software. Technically, burning software should automatically fill up a partial frame with blank space. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 8:03am
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I've discovered laser rot on a lot of CD-R's I've burned -- lots of different labels and even different recorders! Even on brand names I thought were good, like Maxell! I really haven't found any brand that's 100% perfect.
I wonder if the problem is that so many of us use Data CDRs to record Music, when burning on a computer burner. I'm told that Data CDRs have one less layer of data, and that's why Music CDRs are more expensive and better to use. Does anyone know the specific differences between CDRs labeled as "Music CDRs" vs. the Data CDRs? And are Data CDRs perfectly fine for recording with computer burners as opposed to standalone units? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 9:09am
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I've never heard of any difference between the quality of data CD-Rs and audio CD-Rs; however, I have read quite a bit about the differences in quality, even between discs with the same brand name on them. Most of the companies who are producing CD-Rs have an outside company manufacture them, and it's not always the same outside company. This would explain why you could have some Maxell CDs that are okay, and some that are completely useless.
I have never had any problems with TDK (yet), and there is also a manufacturer called Taiyo Yuden, who supposedly produces the best CD-Rs in the world. I have been using Taiyo Yuden for about a year, and I have no problems to report. Here's the ones I stay far, far away from: Sony (complete junk), Maxell (useless crap--at least the older ones), Memorex (I have a bunch that won't read anymore). I don't have much experience with Verbatim and Imation. I've heard that Ritek tends to make good discs. The ones I've been most disappointed with though are the Sony discs. A lot of the Sony discs I own have the "warping" problem mentioned above. I even have some Sony discs where the top layer (of information) has flaked off the plastic. These are discs that have been handled carefully and stored in jewel cases. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 09 August 2005 at 12:54pm
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As far as I know, the only difference between audio and computer CDRs is a code that tells the standalone recorder it's a CDR specifically for audio recorders.
The ones I had go bad WERE audio CDs... Memorex. Stay far away from them as well. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 15 September 2006 at 11:32am
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(To revive an old thread...)
I've found that so-called "laser rot" is pretty uncommon. Out of the 3000 or so CDs I've owned, I've had a total of 2 with any problems (INXS's "Kick" and a UK pressing of "Pigbag's Greatest Hits", if you must know.) It's indeed an aluminum-oxiding effect, and although there's nothing you can do to fix it, I found that certain CD players can handle the bad discs better than others. I found a computer that could read bad CDs just fine, and made a CD-R copy. Once the aluminum oxidizes completely, though, game's over and you'll get skips or pops. To the eye, laser rot looks like there's a brownish haze over the CD surface. The data vs. music CD-Rs are identical in composition, the only difference being a tag in the header to tell the burner what type it is. I've found that certain CD players are fickle with certain brands of CDs, and it's not entirely predictable. I, too had a problem with Memorex, but only on one of my home players. Elsewhere, they worked great. FYI, I routinely use the Verbatim spindles of 100 (available at Sam's Club and other places), which work well in my Denon DJ unit and my radio station's Marantz CD players. As for deterioration, 99% of the issue is how you store them. Cool and dry is the way to go (the dye in the CD is light-sensitive, so leaving them out in the sun is a bad idea). I had a bad experience with one particular early CD wallet, where the plastic sleeves ripped off the front surface of the CD label. Since then, I use jewel boxes for the prized stuff, and cardboard or paper sleeves for the copies that go out with the DJ gear or to the radio station. And as an experiment, I ran a CD-R through my dishwasher with my dishes for an entire year. Worked fine afterwards. Just keep them in the dark and you'll be fine. I should point out that recordable DVDs are more complex - they're made with a sandwich construction, with a glue between the two halves. How will those age? Not sure. Personally, I'm sticking with CD-R, and a backup copy in uncompressed .WAV format on a hard drive. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 15 September 2006 at 9:35pm
| I've been collectong CDs since 1984, and have never seen a CD go bad. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 07 October 2006 at 9:17am
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has anyone encountered a problem with cdrs when the top silver layer comes off the top and has pock marks......then it starts to peal off......i found out that once that happens the disc is trash.....apparently the recorded surface is not the bottom of the disc but the inside layer of the silver lining on top.....once that layer is damaged it's through......anyone have any info on this.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 07 October 2006 at 10:58am
Yes, I have, Ed, with these unbranded silver CD-Rs I bought once. Some cheap CD-Rs have no enamel coating over the top (or whatever you call it). That's very common with the silver no-brand CD-Rs. White inkjet printable CD-Rs offer the best protection from scratches. That's why I never buy CD-Rs that aren't a major, reputable brand. |
edtop40 wrote: