Beatles-"Penny Lane"
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
Forum Name: Chat Board
Forum Description: Chat away but please observe the chat board rules
URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3951
Printed Date: 21 May 2025 at 12:39pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Beatles-"Penny Lane"
Posted By: jimct
Subject: Beatles-"Penny Lane"
Date Posted: 24 July 2008 at 4:07pm
| My commercial 45, which is mono and confirmed as Capitol 5810, has a listed time of (3:00), but an actual time of (2:57). |
Replies:
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 25 July 2008 at 2:12am
|
My canadian stock copy lists the time as 2:57 and runs 2:57 as well. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 25 July 2008 at 5:31am
My (US) stock copy also shows 2:57. I think the early pressings showed 3:00, but was corrected in later ones. My original copy (which my sister "lent" to one of her friends) was like Jim's. |
TomDiehl1 wrote:Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 28 August 2009 at 10:56am
| Does anyone know if the alternate mix of "Penny Lane" - with an extra piccolo trumpet line at the very end - has been commercially released on any CD (here or abroad.) This is the mix that appeared on the "Rarities" LP in the early '80s, a legit release, not a bootleg. And I'm wondering if this mix has been released on a legit CD. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 August 2009 at 1:06pm
| Not to my knowledge. Is the ending on the "Rarities" LP in true stereo? I think I heard somewhere that they spliced the ending on from the DJ 45, which would have been mono. It doesn't sound like mono on the LP, so maybe it was electronically channeled. Does anyone know? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 29 August 2009 at 11:32pm
No, the Beatles have kept very tight control over their catalog, Gordon. Nothing can be released without their permission. Only two versions of Penny Lane have ever been released on CD: the stereo version that's on the "Magical Mystery Tour" CD, the blue compilation, and Beatles 1, and the mono version that was issued on the CD singles box set (and the individual 3" CD singles that were issued before that). |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 05 April 2017 at 11:35pm
|
If no one noticed, the promo 45 version of Penny Lane will make its CD debut on the upcoming 4- and 6-disc box for the 50th anniversary of Sgt. Pepper. It's the final track on disc 4.
http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/7751562/beatles-sgt-peppers-lonely-hearts-club-band-album-50th-anniversary-reissue - http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/7751562/beatl es-sgt-peppers-lonely-hearts-club-band-album-50th-anniversar y-reissue |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 April 2017 at 1:10pm
|
It will be nice to have that from the master tapes! If I'm reading it
correctly, though, it's only a Super Deluxe 6-disc set, for a total of 4 audio CDs, 1 DVD, and 1 Blu-Ray disc. I wonder if discs 3 & 4 will be offered as digital downloads like the 2-disc configuration. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 06 April 2017 at 1:17pm
|
That super deluxe edition can be pre-ordered currently at the bullmoose website for just over $120. That is the lowest price I have seen it listed for. If anyone sees it selling for less elsewhere please let us know. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 06 April 2017 at 2:34pm
Oh, you're right, I misread that... it's 4 CDs and 2 DVDs for a total of 6 disc. There isn't a 4-disc set. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 07 April 2017 at 10:21am
|
Update: Import CD has the super deluxe edition currently posted at $109 plus $4 shipping: http://www.importcds.com/sgt-peppers-lonely-hearts-club-band/602557455328 - http://www.importcds.com/sgt-peppers-lonely-hearts-club-band /602557455328 ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 14 April 2017 at 8:35pm
So is that the "trumpet note ending" version? And if so, is it in stereo? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 15 April 2017 at 3:35am
The link I included says it's in mono. I assume it's the trumpet ending... it says "Penny Lane [Capitol Records U.S. Promo Single - Mono Mix]" |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 26 May 2017 at 3:18pm
|
The Beatles "Sgt. Pepper" box is quite a package, but
sadly, "Penny Lane" is taken from a very poor shape 45. Unbelievable. I guess they can't find the master tape. Aaron's recreation remains the best way to hear it. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 26 May 2017 at 10:28pm
Wow. It's riddled with dropouts and... Hmmm.... hang on.... [Digs out the counterfeit promo 45 he bought in 1982 and puts it on the turntable] Oh, good lord. They actually sourced this track from the early '80s counterfeit promo 45! Those dropouts are in the left channel of the fake 45; the level of the right channel drops for a spell. The original promo 45 was mono, of course, but the poor quality tape transfer on the fake copy left a lot to be desired. What Capitol did for the SD Edition was to copy the left channel of the counterfeit 45 to both channels and kick up the high end a smidgen. That tick near the end of the fade is exactly where it is on the counterfeit. The wave form of the SD Edition track also matches the fake. For an expensive, super deluxe edition of one of the greatest albums of all time, this is the best they could do? Disgraceful. At least Dr. Ebbetts used a mint Remix 11 U.S. promo 45 years ago, and it beats the pants off of this sorry "official" needledrop of a counterfeit needledrop. If Capitol was going to have to depend on an unofficial source, they sure picked the wrong one. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 27 May 2017 at 12:41am
|
That's extremely disappointing news. Hopefully the other bonus tracks made it worth purchasing. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 27 May 2017 at 6:38am
|
One of those moments you wish Giles Martin was reading this thread. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 28 May 2017 at 9:25am
|
Even if Giles was reading this thread, it's too late now.
The box is on the market. ------------- |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 29 May 2017 at 12:13pm
|
I'll add this about the counterfeit "Penny Lane" promo 45: I bought it at a record show in Oklahoma City in 1982, when I was the music director at KOMA. I knew immediately that it was a fake: it came in a picture sleeve which anyone who had bought the original Scranton pressing would have instantly recognized was not the real thing: it was printed on too-wide, less-glossy paper stock, leaving the folded-over inner "seams" one inch wide on each side. The colors were also brighter and washed out. It wasn't at all expensive; I bought it strictly for the novelty of having the version I'd originally heard on the radio on a 45, played it a time or two and filed it away, forgetting how bad it sounded.
As for the record itself, the very basic printing on Capitol's promo labels of the time wasn't difficult to photograph and replicate, and an untrained eye probably wouldn't notice anything about the label on this one not looking legit. The vinyl is of good quality for a counterfeit, although my copy has a bit of a thump-producing valley at an angle to the label for about the last half-minute. Never saw a flaw like that on a real '60s Capitol press. There were other things that didn't add up: the lead-in grooves on both sides were far longer than anything Capitol pressed in the '60s. The edge of the record was not quite as rounded off as a legit pressing, and the minor imperfections in the playing area weren't typical. The star symbol for the L.A. plant was hand-etched and a little too big. The record plays fairly quietly, making it apparent that the ticks and pops were imparted from the source disc. The Super Deluxe Edition set actually uses a clean copy of the counterfeit; the obvious signs of wear and distortion were on the original source promo 45. It wouldn't surprise me if no one involved in assembling the SDE package knew the counterfeit copy wasn't legit. What baffles me is that they took the left channel of the fake 45, the one with all the dropouts. None of those are in the right channel (I re-listened, and the brief level drop was in the left channel, not the right.) Going exclusively with the right still would have sucked, but less so. The mono "Strawberry Fields" side is a channel-wandering headphone trip on this counterfeit. The right channel starts at about half the volume of the left, until it abruptly rises at "...thing is real" twenty seconds in. There's more where that came from, transforming it into a bit of a drunken-sailor listening experience. |
Posted By: C J Brown
Date Posted: 30 May 2017 at 3:52pm
| Yah Shure - KOMA 1982? Was that in the midst of the CW era at KOMA? I rode the KOMA sky wave in Arizona during the 60's. Awesome Storz station then. You could be nearly anywhere out west and listen to KOMA at night. Amazing how loud and clear that that station was when driving nights in AZ, NV,UT, NM,CO and many other states back then. BTW many over at BSN are happy with you seeming to have solved the Penny Lane promo mystery. The next question is why? I still think that certain people at Apple did not want this promo version get air play on radio or streaming and possibly become the de -facto go to version for anyone.. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 30 May 2017 at 4:29pm
|
Yah Shure, would you be able to send me a
needledrop of your repro 45? ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 30 May 2017 at 6:03pm
|
CJ: Only your third post after almost ten years?? C'mon. ;)
Yes, it was during the "Coma Country" years. I did PM drive from '81-'84, leaving about two months after Storz sold the station, crossing the street briefly to KOMA's former top-40 nemesis, WKY, then returning home to WDGY shortly after Storz had sold it, too. I'd listened to KOMA in the Twin Cites growing up, so was well aware of its huge nighttime coverage, but my first night on the air was still surprising, getting a call from Chihuahua, followed by another from Winnipeg. Sure beat the 10-mile nighttime range of my previous station! Fellow board member Bwci Bo sent me a brief '90s aircheck he recorded of KOMA on his family's living room stereo in his New Zealand hometown. KOMA was an incredibly fun place to work. Thanks for the BSN update; I used to lurk over there years ago. As far as the trumpet ending getting airplay, Capitol let that cat out of the bag with the Rarities LP, which, of course, would have been released with Apple's blessing. One of my former KOMA PDs owns a station in Bloomsburg, PA and the Rarities cut has been his de facto airplay version for over fifteen years. With all the various permutations of Beatles product that's been hitting the market during the digital era, I can't see where Apple would have an issue with remix 11 being a part of the crowd; it's certainly just as valid as all the other work-in-progress outtakes. The only apparent difference, other than that the tape appears to be gone, is that it received airplay in two North American countries for a couple of weeks fifty years ago. Assuming the trumpet ending itself might be the crux of the problem, would they not have blocked the similar ending on the Anthology series? I also think that if Apple were that reluctant to have RM 11 reappear, they would have simply nixed it. That, to me, would have been far preferable than including such an astoundingly inferior representation on nothing less than the biggest showcase yet for a truly milestone album. It sticks out like the amateurish sore thumb that it is. Why they didn't consult the collector community first is anybody's guess. If they were going for authenticity (which I don't believe was the case), they could have put out the call for an actual aircheck of the promo 45 being played on the air in 1967 - maybe even on KOMA - and the AM quality would have made for a neat historical footnote to the set, providing the listener with a micro-glimpse of what US or Canadian top-40 radio sounded like at the time "Penny Lane" first hit the airwaves. Barring that, it wouldn't have been that difficult to find a DJ to replicate the experience. But that'll probably have to wait until the 51st Anniversary Super-Duper Deluxer Edition. In the meantime, we're all left scratching our collective heads on one of the stranger technical calls in Pepperland. |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 06 July 2017 at 6:10pm
|
The UK EMI master for the long promo single of "Penny Lane"
is no longer extant, vanished in 1972. So, unless there is the US Capitol Dub master tape in the Capitol vaults, it's no longer extant. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 July 2017 at 2:49pm
Where did you hear that, Kent? |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 12 July 2017 at 11:16am
|
I know there's several incarnations of the 2017 reissue of "Sgt. Pepper". I saw a 2 CD version in Target. It had 2 versions of "Penny Lane" (though if I recall, one was an instrumental.) Did the other have the trumpet solo ending?
If not, what are the other versions of this box set that have it? I guess there are 4-6 renditions, and I think the ones with the most CDs list for about $150. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 12 July 2017 at 12:34pm
|
Gordon. the Capitol US promo 45 (with the trumpet ending) is only included on the Super Deluxe Edition, which has 4 CDs, plus blu-ray and DVD discs.
And as these things often go, that's the most expensive option. |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 17 September 2017 at 8:41am
The Steve Hoffman Forums on the anticipatory thread for the Sgt. Peppers Anniversary set. A photo of the tape legend explained the piccolo ending's demise and the destruction date. Which I am quoting "Scrapped September 1971" This is EMI's own tape box legend being quoted here. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 17 September 2017 at 2:16pm
|
By God, you're right, Kent! The notation says, "American
dead version with [outro?] trumpet scrapped Sept. 1971." (Can't upload the photo because Photobucket now makes you pay to allow third party hosting and this website doesn't allow direct upload of images. But just search in Google Images for: "penny lane" "scrapped" "sept. 1971" and you'll see the picture of the log entry.) |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 26 September 2017 at 12:10pm
| So I take it then that this mean the "outro trumpet" mix of "Penny Lane" has never appeared on CD from master tape? I recall this trumpet ending version is supposedly only on the 6-CD version of the many incarnations of the recently released deluxe version of "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band"? I've been meaning to ask ... does the 6-CD version contain the trumpet ending we've heard from the "Rarities" LP of the early '80s? and is it taken from vinyl? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 26 September 2017 at 12:25pm
Unfortunately, it is taken from bad vinyl, as discussed one page back:
|
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 12:27pm
| How strange they'd pull the trumpet ending of "Penny Lane" (alternate) from a bootleg, when they could have pulled it from the easy-to-find legit LP "Rarities". |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 12:30pm
| BTW, has the "Rarities" album ever been released on CD? anywhere in the world? And if the master for "Penny Lane" wasn't pulled from another vinyl for that vinyl release, then I'd think the master tape of "Rarities" would contain a tape source of that version of "Penny Lane"? However, if the tape was truly lost in the early '70s, then the early '80s release of "Rarities" would contain a vinyl copy transferred to vinyl. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 12:46pm
No, it hasn't, but the "Rarities" version is simply the original stereo mix with the mono trumpet ending tacked on from the promo 45, I've read. |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 2:19pm
I read that too, but I was always suspicious of that claim. On "Rarities" the trumpet ending was in stereo and sounded perfect just like the rest of the song. Had they really tacked that on from vinyl in the early 80s, I'd fully expect to hear the tone change at that spot. A click, some rumble...any vinyl clue but no, it sounds clean and seamless to my ears. So if that came from vinyl, they did a rather amazing job. I also would be amazed if Capitol or EMI somehow lost the LP master for "Rarities." That album in its original form should have been included in the "Capitol Versions" reissues. MM |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 2:32pm
|
I agree with Mark. I've heard the Rarities version, and there's no noticeable tacked-on ending. The ending is seamless and in stereo. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 6:16pm
| Good to know! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 8:39pm
|
Nevertheless, the original mono master very well may have been dumped in the early '70s, like KenT mentioned. The Rarities version might have been a totally new mix from the multi-tracks, I suppose, or a stereo version that had been sitting in the vaults. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 9:50pm
But I'd guess that someone here in this chatroom has already A-B'd the Rarities "Penny Lane" and the common one and noticed if it's a new stereo mix from the multi's, or if it matches up until the trumpet end piece comes in. I could be wrong - but has anyone A-B'd those 2 versions? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 10:35pm
|
I haven't ever done an A-B of the Rarities version, no, but I'd be
interested in finding out if it matches the standard stereo mix until the ending. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 10:35pm
|
The Rarities LP trumpet ending doesn't sound seamless to me at all. That edit point really jumped out when I bought the LP in 1980. It sounds like a tape cut was made on the diagonal.
Nowhere on the back cover does it state that the ending was sourced from a vinyl promo 45: ... Capitol has taken a stereo version of the song and tagged on the rare final notes, which collectors might argue..." As a matter of fact, we are! The piccolo trumpet in the left channel leading up to the ending on the LP is dry, with no reverb. On the Remix 11 promo 45, the piccolo trumpet has very noticeable reverb during that same portion, continuing on through the ending. On the Rarities LP track, the left channel piccolo trumpet switches from dry to wet after the edit point. To me, the "tagged on" part sounds like it underwent some stereo reprocessing to keep the trumpet on the left. One thing's for sure: the tagged-on Rarities ending sounds a lot cleaner than what ended up on the SPLHCB SDE boxed set. That begs the question: did Capitol still have its 1967 copy of the RM 11 tape when they assembled the Rarities LP in 1980? And if so, whatever happened to it? Endings aside, there's one other notable difference between the US promo 45 (Remix 11) and the Capitol stock 45 (Remix 14), which is evident from the very start: the promo 45 begins with a very brief bass guitar note before the vocals come in less than a second later. The stock 45 opens with the vocals, trimming off the brief bass note. The stereo Rarities LP track, like the promo 45, also begins with that very brief bass note before the vocals start. The fake stereo track from the original vinyl Capitol US Magical Mystery Tour LP begins with the vocals, just like the stock 45. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 29 September 2017 at 5:14am
|
That's very interesting, John. I'll have to see if I still have the supposed
Rarities file that someone sent me years ago. I say "supposed" because I'm wondering if it was doctored/fixed up/smoothed out prior to it being sent to me. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 29 September 2017 at 6:12am
|
I just found my file, and it's a direct dub from the Rarities LP from start to finish. The ending doesn't sound "tacked on" to me, despite Capital's claim on the back cover of the LP, and I didn't notice any major reverb differences in the trumpet. If they did tack on the ending, it must have been remixed from the multi-tracks. The ending is in true stereo and quality-wise it matches the rest of the track. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 6:19pm
|
The Rarities LP is a composite. Listen to the LP on a good
system, a trained ear can hear this transition. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: anthology123
Date Posted: 13 November 2017 at 11:59am
|
Sorry, but I have to agree, I can hear the splice at the end that tacks the
trumpet ending onto the stereo mix on the Rarities LP. The fidelity of the trumpet ending just is not as sharp as the rest of the song. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 November 2017 at 1:13pm
|
Huh, I just don't hear it on my system. This is a dub of the last 20 seconds from a Rarities LP I recently obtained:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hc0vsn3djl5e3d/Penny%20Lane%20Rarities%20ending.mp3?dl=0 - Penny Lane Rarities ending ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 13 November 2017 at 3:30pm
| I think I can hear the tape splice... there's this little "thud" right before the trumpet starts. And that was my thought, too... that the trumpet doesn't sound quite as clear as it does before that point. I'm not sure what to think... they did a very good job if it is spliced in. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 November 2017 at 4:17pm
|
If it is spliced on (and it probably is, as they specifically say so on the
back cover) I agree that they did a nice job. As far as I'm concerned, this doesn't even come close to being what I'd call a bad sounding splice in the era of tape-and-razor-blade editing. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: anthology123
Date Posted: 13 November 2017 at 5:06pm
|
I have not listened to it in a while, but I bought Rarities the month it first came
out, living in LA at the time. I also have the infamous boot of the Penny Lane Promo 45, which I bought at Beatlefest '79. My take is the same as Brian, I can hear a difference in the fidelity of the trumpet between the ending and the solo, there is a certain tinniness and bit of distortion on the end trumpet, that is not present in the solo. |